Brenta's Photo Solution

Dow Williams · Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 1675

Most of the Mount Ishbel photos were voted down this morning, including these three. I assume I am being hounded by an avatar of a tourist (read non-climber). Just another opportunity to revisit Brenta’s solution in my opinion. Not sure why it is so difficult to implement this. Guess I would kind of like to know if it is or is not ever going to come to fruition? Cheers!

sp elf · Joined: 06 Dec 2003 Posts: 185

Message sent to the member. It wasn't a tourist and it wasn't an avatar. I'll be deleting this thread shortly.

Dow Williams · Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 1675

Before you delete the thread then, send an email to who it was and ask him/her if they would be so kind as to show a little courage and simply post here or email me who they are and if they are so inclined, explain why the barrage of downvotes this morning. I also assume, this particular elf, has zero interest in passing along to Josh and those who might be capable, that I requested they look into changing the vote system again?

I have poured endless man-hours into this site that I could have easily contributed to another. I rarely read or post on the message boards. Looking for a little in return regarding this question.

sp elf · Joined: 06 Dec 2003 Posts: 185

I have poured endless man-hours into this site that I could have easily contributed to another. I rarely read or post on the message boards. Looking for a little in return regarding this question.

This issue and many similar ones have been addressed dozens of times. The short answer is, the elves have no ability to change the underlying source code that is SummitPost. We can edit pages, delete stuff, and look into a few things like who voted on what. That's about it. Josh lost interest in making significant changes to the site a number of years ago. Now and then he pops in to make a few changes and is gone for months at a time. Like it or not, that's the way site maintainance goes.

Dow Williams · Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 1675

All I ask then is that this topic be left open for discussion. I rarely post here. I spend 99% of my time at SP putting up a tremendous amount of route information.

Josh might not spend any hours here as you suggest but I have invested a ton and have another 100 mountains to add. This is truly site feedback-improvement related. It is not discussing my choice of beer or wine.

Deleted User · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 16777186

Dow is probably one of the busiest contributors to this site, and I've seen his terrific photos voted down time after time. You've published names before, lets have him.

You want to risk losing the interest of a valuabler member just so some troll can get a little scolding and slap on the wrist? Who keeps doing this to this guy? No doubt it is the same person most if not all of the time.

Dow Williams · Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 1675

Josh lost interest in making significant changes to the site a number of years ago. Now and then he pops in to make a few changes and is gone for months at a time.

Josh, I have read your 14er trip report several times. Outstanding accomplishment. What you have done with this site to date is just as impressive. If what is stated above is true, I would be interested in buying the site. I am truly completely 100% retired from the real work world at 42. I have the time and passion, and more importantly, this fills in my rest days which at my age are mandatory between climbs. My interest would be to keep it as a .ORG (non profit). I don't need more of the green stuff. This is the only way I can reach you I assume, think about it. Cheers!

IdahoKid · Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 603

Dow...
You have just put forth a very intriguing proposal here. Yes, Josh has done a magnificent job with this site and has contributed to the climbing community across the world. But it seems, as the elf has mentioned, that his interest in the site has slowly dwindled.

You have done wonders with your pages, photos, and TRs. I, for one, support the notion of your proposal as you have plenty of experience, passion, and most importantly time. I would be interested to here other memer's opinions about this.
Sean

Zzyzx · Joined: 18 Feb 2003 Posts: 1457

Dow, the real question is: would you still keep P&P? ;)

But seriously, I've never been to Canadian Rockies, but your photos are truely inspiring. Hope Josh will seriously consider your offer. It would be great to see SP grow and improve. This is more than just a web site. I've met awesome climbing partners and learned a lot thanks to it.
I would be willing to pay reasonable membership fee to help cover the expenses if that's what would take to keep the site operating smoothly and get rid of the trolls.

sp elf · Joined: 06 Dec 2003 Posts: 185

No doubt it is the same person most if not all of the time.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Alan Ellis · Joined: 08 Apr 2002 Posts: 2511

Dow: Thanks for all your valuable contributions and I look forward to many more. Without offense, I hope Josh does not sell the site you you or anyone else.

Josh: Please do not sell the site.

awagher · Joined: 22 Jan 2005 Posts: 1192

Dow I love your photography and DID NOT vote on these photos so it was not me. But let me say the same thing I said to Jody Langford a while ago when he had the same problem. Various folks come to SP with different aesthetics and voting criteria. What some see as a beautiful sunset I personally see as another boring artsy fartsy shot. Although we all have them (and for the last few weeks the picture of the week makes me think the name should be changed to sunsetpost. org) they are not my favorite. I like action shots and route shots best then MOUNTAINS etc. Some folks might judge your photos by who you are. Some by photographic technical standards etc. I was once "warned" by the elves for offending someone with my voting so I all but stopped voting. I mean growing up in America you kinda get the idea that your vote is YOUR VOTE and you can use it how you like. Opening your work up to the public to be "criticized" is sometimes confusing. This is ONE of the reasons I do not post photos here anymore (there are many). So at last let me say that I love your photos, I love a great deal of the photos here on SP and feel it is one of the ways that this site is unique. Please do not get too discouraged and take it to heart as it seems that you do care a great deal about this site and your contributions are greatly appreciated (by me at least) in helping to make this an important resource for all of us. Guys like you and climbwild and many others keep it real here.

I like the buying out idea as well.

Dow Williams · Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 1675

Good comments socal...I think this thread is kind of heading in another direction than just photos...I was not offended by the downvotes this morning as much as I knew that Brenta and others had great solutions to making this site hum that much better than it already does. I grew a successful business from scratch and we tweaked our website every week. When an sp elf states for the record that "Josh lost interest in making significant changes to the site a number of years ago" I have to assume he/she knows Josh fairly well.

I sure don't expect Josh to just hand it over, but if he really has lost interest in continuing to improve it (which I don't know to be absolute fact), then I am simply willing to offer him compensation for all the hard work he put into this site while I was out building and selling a business for profit.

Cheers to all of you...a solid discussion...

sisyphus · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 794

I think a simple solution to the photo controversy would be to make photo voting the same as mountain voting. I think people would be less likely to vote low if they knew their vote would be seen by everyone. I think this might improve the "vengeful" voting thing.

I also think this would be a valuable addition to route pages. Why not make all voting here transparent?

Of course, I have no idea how to implement a change such as this, or how complicated it wouid be, especially if it had to be retroactive.

Just a thought.
-ed

Fred Spicker · Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 1119

Technically, on route pages, you are "voting" on the quality of the route itself, NOT on the quality of the page. Note that the question in the box with the little biners is:

How fun/worthwhile is this climb?

Thus, route pages really do not get votes, and I should think that only those who have actually climbed the route are qualified to award little biners.