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Another tragedy in Pakistan

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 Author Topic: Another tragedy in Pakistan
Chewbacca


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:28 pm GMT  Quote
 
Damien Gildea wrote:
Lumping all 'commercial' expeditions together is plain ignorance - and when used in the context of some posts on this and other sites is insulting and damaging, as people are questioning the competence of someone who has just died and can not defend themselves against gutless armchair slander.

I don't know much about the others, but one of the deceased, Rolf Bae (aged 33), was one of Norway's most experienced and acknowledged high altitude climbers. As well as having climbed the "usual" high altitude peaks on various continents, he has crossed Greenland on skis, paddled 2138 km through Canada, skied 3800 km across the Antartica via the South Pole and also skied to the North Pole. There was apparently nothing this guy couldn't climb or ski. This was his 3rd attempt at K2, and at all times with a lot of emphasis on safety and getting back alive which he demonstrated by turning around just 25 minutes from the summit of K2.

In June this year he climbed Trango Tower, which I guess was a warm up to K2. They climbed the same route as Hans Christian Doset and Finn Dæhli 24 years ago - and in retrospect linking his own death with the deaths of Doset and Dæhli, both two young Norwegians killed by an avalanche in the Karakorum.
Cy Kaicener


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:37 pm GMT  Quote
 
Here is an update from the website of Irish climber Pat Falvey at basecamp on k2
http://www.patfalvey.com/viewnews.php?id=43
Nikman


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:46 pm GMT  Quote
 
Damien Gildea wrote:
K2 has never been guided. The 1994 Amical expedition 'sold' places but those who summited were a UIAGM guide, the very experienced leader who was also UIAGM, and Rob Hall, himself a guide (not UIAGM). Not really clients.


If you read my posting carefully, you may find out I didn't write, that Amical guided K2. I pointed out, that they have (and had) a serious and good working apply system, that makes sure everybody, who wants to go for certain peaks is experienced and skilled enough. I think there's nothing wrong with that. This gives highly trained amateurs or semi-Pro's the chance to climb under professional organisation for a reasonable price.

In the sentence before the Amical reference I wrote: "a guided K2-climb. This is the future market!", which should implement, it's not a market right now, but will be in the future.

Damien Gildea wrote:
Of course K2 will be guided in the future. Throw enough money, Sherpas, 02, rope and guides at it and wait for the weather. It's a shorter steeper more direct line than either Everest route so can be done quite efficiently. Of course it is less forgiving of falls and objectively more dangerous, but that won't stop people trying it in this way. In fact at least one company is offering it guided next year.


I totaly agree with that. It will be the close future and won't take another 30 years. It will happen faster.

Scott wrote:
Quote:
Lumping all 'commercial' expeditions together is plain ignorance

That is true, but I used the words "commercial trips are just beginning", because even though not guided, it is the beginning and a stepping stone and the just the beginning of commerical trips.


That's exactly the point, commercialisation is running in steps. The first expeditions to 8000m mountains were enterprises of national motivation, like the English Everest, the Italian K2 or the German Nanga Parbat expedition. There was no commercial attitude, but national interest in it: "bringing home fame and honour". Expedition leaders like the highly disputed German K. Herrligkoffer used national motivation to bring up the first steps of commercialisation. 1953 Nanga Parbat expedition was used for a wide spread media reporting (newspaper, journal-reportings, books, movie) after.

Later everything became smaller and somehow private, but got pushed to public even more from books, pictures and movies. Messner for example was a minimalistic and pure solo trendsetter, climbing as minimalistic as possible. He abondons the commercialisation of mountains, but his personal success and marketing, his books, pictures and his economical success are one major reason for the following commercial developement.

The third step are organised expeditions for skilled climbers. A serious business, where - from my point of view - nothing can be said against it. Highly skilled climbers pay a fair price for organisation and logistics. Of course people who run this business also follow commercial motivation. That's ok. If someone runs a company well, why shouldn't he earn the benefit from it?

The fourth step are organised, all-inclusive, botteled O2, and private Sherpa guided tours, that offer Internet at adv.BC as can be found at Everest already. Those are not taking place at K2 at the moment, but will be in the future.


The current accident at K2 is tragical, but all climbers were skilled and it's nobodies right to judge about possible mistakes they made. If someone has the skill to climb K2, it's his personal decision. This earns respect, because even if no objective mistakes are made, there is still a true risc of leaving ones life at such a mountain. That can happen to everyone!

The tragedy of K2 has directly nothing to do with and won't stop the process of commercialisation. Deads on Everest didn't stop the process there.


Last edited by Nikman on Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Schuetzenweber


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:35 pm GMT  Quote
 

Quote:
Cas Van De Gevel, the rescued Dutch climber, lies on a bed at a local hospital in the northern Pakistani town of Skardu August 4, 2008. Days after 11 fellow climbers were killed on K2, an Italian refused to succumb to frostbite and exhaustion as he stumbled down the world's second highest mountain on Monday in the hope of being airlifted to safety.



Quote:
Dutch climber Wilco Van Rooijen is seen in a bed of a military hospital where is was taken after being rescued from K-2's base camp, in Skardu, Pakistan, Monday, Aug. 4, 2008. A helicopter plucked two frostbitten Dutch climbers from K-2 on Monday after an avalanche and exposure left at least 11 people missing and believed dead on the world's second-highest mountain.



Quote:
Norwegian climber Rolf Bae poses in South Georgia, part of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands (SGSSI), a British overseas territory in the southern Atlantic Ocean in this undated 2006 photo. Norwegian media are reporting that climber Rolf Bae, 33, died in the disaster, while his wife is reportedly trying to make her way down with two other Norwegians. At least nine mountaineers died near the summit of K2 in the Himalayas when a huge chunk of ice sheared off the mountain and hit them, and several more climbers were missing, Pakistani tour operators said on August 3, 2008. Three South Koreans, two Nepalis, a Dutch, a Serb, a Norwegian and a Pakistani climber were killed on the notoriously treacherous Himalayan peak, the world's second highest mountain after Mount Everest.

RiP
Quote:
Undated file picture of Norwegian mountaineer Rolf Bae, 33. At least nine mountaineers died near the summit of K2 in the Himalayas when a huge chunk of ice sheared off the mountain and hit them, and several more climbers were missing, Pakistani tour operators said on August 3, 2008. Three South Koreans, two Nepalis, a Dutch, a Serb, a Norwegian and a Pakistani climber were killed on the notoriously treacherous Himalayan peak, the world's second highest mountain after Mount Everest. Norwegian media are reporting that climber Bae died in the disaster, while his wife is reportedly trying to make her way down with two other Norwegians.


Quote:
In this undated 2006 photo Irish climbers Gerard McDonnell (L), Pat Falvey (R) and Clare O'Leary (C) trek during an expedition in South Georgia, part of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands (SGSSI), a British overseas territory in the southern Atlantic Ocean. At least nine mountaineers died near the summit of K2 in the Himalayas when a huge chunk of ice sheared off the mountain and hit them, and several more climbers were missing, Pakistani tour operators said on August 3, 2008. Missing Irishman Gerard McDonnell, 37, an Alaska-based oil worker from Limerick in southwestern Ireland who has climbed Everest, was given up for dead by an experienced mountaineering friend. "At present it is believed that anyone who is classified as position unknown will not be coming back," Pat Falvey told.

RiP
Quote:
Climber Gerard McDonnell, from Limerick in southwestern Ireland, poses in his ice cave in this undated 2005 photo taken on Denali, or Mount McKinley in Alaska. At least nine mountaineers died near the summit of K2 in the Himalayas when a huge chunk of ice sheared off the mountain and hit them, and several more climbers were missing, Pakistani tour operators said on August 3, 2008. Missing Irishman Gerard McDonnell, 37, an Alaska-based oil worker, who has climbed Everest, was given up for dead by an experienced mountaineering friend. "At present it is believed that anyone who is classified as position unknown will not be coming back," Pat Falvey told.


Quote:
The world's second tallest mountain K-2 is seen in the Himalayan Karakoram ranges of Pakistan in this undated handout photo. At least five climbers from a South Korean team were killed by an avalanche near the summit of K-2, the world's second highest mountain, and there were fears climbers from other teams may have perished also, expedition organisers said on August 3, 2008.
crackers


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:40 pm GMT  Quote
 
This has nothing to do with the present tragedy, but I would remind everybody that when you go climbing in different places, you have to follow rules of the country you're visiting. In the case of Pakistan, that means Liaison Officers and all the rest. Commercial? Maybe, if that's how you want to see it. Reality? definitely...
Diego Sahagún


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:51 pm GMT  Quote
 
K2 Saturday wrap-up of events.

Wilco found alive! Very Happy

K2's double tragedy - blowing out candles for scoops and fame.

Wilco and Cas in Skardu facing threat of amputation - next stop northern Spain?

K2: Fredrik Strang's tale of Pakistani guide's fatal fall
Diego Sahagún


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:35 pm GMT  Quote
 
Confortola en el campo base: “Feliz de estar vivo”

This is before the last accident: Segunda tragedia en el K2
MarthaP


Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:33 pm GMT  Quote
 
Alpinist online has posted another <a href="http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/newswire-k2-update">retrospective</a>. There's a very clear shot of the bottleneck - no surprise a chunk of that fell.

Peace to the families and friends of these great mountaineers.
Diego Sahagún


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:06 pm GMT  Quote
 
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/newswire-k2-update

RIP Sad
blazin


Joined: 29 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:40 pm GMT  Quote
 
I think the NYTimes has a pretty good account of the accident as well as a decent graphic of K2 and the bottleneck:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/world/asia/06ktwo.html?hp
Diego Sahagún


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:08 pm GMT  Quote
 
Diego Sahagún wrote:
Confortola en el campo base: “Feliz de estar vivo”


Marco in BC for emergency evacuation, hope for more survivals fading
Diego Sahagún


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:24 pm GMT  Quote
 
Diego Sahagún wrote:
K2: Fredrik Strang's tale of Pakistani guide's fatal fall


Missing summit pics and no world records - turning the tables on Fredrik Strang
Diego Sahagún


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:38 pm GMT  Quote
 
ganesh70 wrote:
14 mountaineers are missing on the K2, and at least 4 are feared dead.
They were climbing the famous bottleneck when a giant serac swept away some of them and blocked the descent of the others.


11 muertos en el K2.

Tragedia histórica en el K2 Sad
hansw


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:32 am GMT  Quote
 
How many books can we expect to come out of this sad story? Compare Everest 1996:

Nikman


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:29 am GMT  Quote
 
Diego Sahagún wrote:
Diego Sahagún wrote:
K2: Fredrik Strang's tale of Pakistani guide's fatal fall


Missing summit pics and no world records - turning the tables on Fredrik Strang


Thanks for those links, I just read that. What a lyer that Swedish guy is. Hard to believe, that this guy is able to look in the mirror without feeling shame.
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