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Are all mountains on SP ? :)

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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby Castlereagh » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:44 pm

Plenty of mountains left to post, even in the US. Just look, for example, at all the linkless peaks on this page:

http://www.summitpost.org/montana-s-top ... ist/456618

MoapaPk wrote: 3) there is a strong sense that nobody reads this stuff.


I'm thinking about trying Morey Peak in the next few months, so rest assured I'll be reading your page very closely.

And for the record, I'm pretty sure that Katy Perry was playing at some point on my Satellite Radio as the sagebrush wrecked havoc on the undercarriage of my rental driving down Phinney Canyon
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby MoapaPk » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:14 pm

Castlereagh wrote:Plenty of mountains left to post, even in the US. Just look, for example, at all the linkless peaks on this page:

http://www.summitpost.org/montana-s-top ... ist/456618

MoapaPk wrote: 3) there is a strong sense that nobody reads this stuff.


I'm thinking about trying Morey Peak in the next few months, so rest assured I'll be reading your page very closely.

And for the record, I'm pretty sure that Katy Perry was playing at some point on my Satellite Radio as the sagebrush wrecked havoc on the undercarriage of my rental driving down Phinney Canyon


Great! How did you like my car? Please beware of the caveat on the photo, as well as the route photo from point 7. And don't slip on the you-know-what!
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby Liba Kopeckova » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:23 pm

There are tons of Mountains in Colorado which are not on SP, and some are beautiful peaks over 4000 meters high. No, there is still a lot to post, just I don't have time to do it.
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby MoapaPk » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:49 pm

FabienenCordoba wrote:
visentin wrote:I'm not sure there is a single community website with shared content that has found a simple and efficient way to realize that.

http://www.camptocamp.org is a good example of a mountain website based on a multi-language wiki.


The wiki format doesn't work well if the subject is obscure (which remote peaks often are). Usually an author who wants to correct errors has to sign up on the wiki-type site, and often that is too much inertia for people. Simple comments are typically ignored on Wiki sites. E.G.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Red_R ... ation_Area
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby surgent » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:22 pm

For obscure summits, SP is still the best resource. I'm always looking for info on the lesser-known desert summits here in Arizona. When I do an internet search, I often get nothing (except for the wretched "hotels near ... " and "meet singles near ..." websites). If I climb one of these peaks and think it may be of interest to others, I'll post a page for it at SP. While it may never get widely read, it certainly would not be read at all at the very limited other peak-related sites out there. Anyone out there actually read or even log on to MountainZone, for example?

It is natural that in SP's early days, the better-known peaks would get pages first. Now we're filling in the middle blanks, but people need to feel confident to step in and supply information on these lesser-known peaks. By and large the comments for new pages that are clearly lacking are supportive, but the new authors sometimes never check back in, or who knows. But this is to be expected. Others do very well their first time through the process.

This leads me to another reason I like SP: the pages themselves are often quite interesting since the authors have distinct styles, and some put up some spectacular pages. A wiki environment would be open to abuse, or at the very least, allow someone to go in and sully up a very well-done page. If it's an issue of an inactive member or a page with clearly out-of-date or wrong information, then yes, there should be a way to expedite change/ownership of that page. The current system to ask elves or contact the members is awkward. I support an idea that if a member goes inactive for more than a year (e.g. by login date), then his pages becomes open for adoption automatically. This would partially solve the problem.
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby Hotoven » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:30 pm

surgent wrote: If it's an issue of an inactive member or a page with clearly out-of-date or wrong information, then yes, there should be a way to expedite change/ownership of that page. The current system to ask elves or contact the members is awkward. I support an idea that if a member goes inactive for more than a year (e.g. by login date), then his pages becomes open for adoption automatically. This would partially solve the problem.


I like this idea, but there also should be a requirement that the person who adopts it knows the areas really well and have similar pages around the area, or they have climbed that particular mountain. Just a thought...
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby MoapaPk » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:47 pm

Hotoven wrote:
surgent wrote: If it's an issue of an inactive member or a page with clearly out-of-date or wrong information, then yes, there should be a way to expedite change/ownership of that page. The current system to ask elves or contact the members is awkward. I support an idea that if a member goes inactive for more than a year (e.g. by login date), then his pages becomes open for adoption automatically. This would partially solve the problem.


I like this idea, but there also should be a requirement that the person who adopts it knows the areas really well and have similar pages around the area, or they have climbed that particular mountain. Just a thought...



I've seen a number of pages adopted by someone who hasn't climbed the mountains. That's the way it is; sometimes you just have to be grateful that someone takes responsibility. In one case, the mountain page is very sparse and is just a container for the routes, which really give all the detailed info, and are maintained by others. The owner is not claiming to have done the routes. However, route pages, and mountain pages that contain routes, should be maintained by someone who had done those routes, or who credibly acknowledges someone who has done the routes and provided the information. There are always reasonable exceptions. The main thing is to label speculation as speculation, not fact.
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby Bob Sihler » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:56 pm

Hotoven wrote:
surgent wrote: If it's an issue of an inactive member or a page with clearly out-of-date or wrong information, then yes, there should be a way to expedite change/ownership of that page. The current system to ask elves or contact the members is awkward. I support an idea that if a member goes inactive for more than a year (e.g. by login date), then his pages becomes open for adoption automatically. This would partially solve the problem.


I like this idea, but there also should be a requirement that the person who adopts it knows the areas really well and have similar pages around the area, or they have climbed that particular mountain. Just a thought...


In several cases, I have gone ahead and transferred a page to someone of the owner has been inactive for over a year.

And most pages I've transferred have gone to people who have climbed the peak or know the area. I take people at their word on those things, of course, but most people who have asked me about adopting a page have already established their credibility on this site.

Just ask. I think I handle most of these requests, and I usually get on them pretty fast since my first concern is site quality and encouraging people who want to contribute good content.
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby visentin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:12 pm

FabienenCordoba wrote:
visentin wrote:I'm not sure there is a single community website with shared content that has found a simple and efficient way to realize that.

http://www.camptocamp.org is a good example of a mountain website based on a multi-language wiki.


I've register once to this site but never found it as appealing and intuitive as SP. But yes, that's a good site.
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby visentin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:22 pm

visentin wrote:
FabienenCordoba wrote:
visentin wrote:I'm not sure there is a single community website with shared content that has found a simple and efficient way to realize that.

http://www.camptocamp.org is a good example of a mountain website based on a multi-language wiki.


I've register once to this site but never found it as appealing and intuitive as SP. But yes, that's a good site.


Liba Kopeckova wrote:There are tons of Mountains in Colorado which are not on SP, and some are beautiful peaks over 4000 meters high. No, there is still a lot to post, just I don't have time to do it.


Sure, there is a huge contrast depending on areas in the world. In the Tatras for example I think every rock prominent more than 2m has its page :) But lots of peaks still to post for example in the Pyrenees. Thanks to Rafa and Eza all main ones are already done but a whole army of small 3000ers or important peaks in 2800 or 2900 are still waiting... I've always found the absence of French contributors on SP intriguing. Perhaps one side of our culture...

Hotoven wrote:I like this idea, but there also should be a requirement that the person who adopts it knows the areas really well and have similar pages around the area, or they have climbed that particular mountain. Just a thought...


As Bob said, it is done, still manually but according to this principle. However I am sure there would be some way to automatize it in a fair way. For example after 6 months, people who have signed its hiking log, or people who have this mountain high in the classification "suggested mountains for you" could have the edit option. We could then imagine a foldable section in our profile named "objects you can adopt".
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby MoapaPk » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:36 pm

There are lots of places out here that I don't want to put on the web, at least in the kind of detail that seems to be required for summitpost. I know I'm fighting a losing battle, but I've seen too many places get too popular, even vandalized, not long after the SP instructions were posted by other folks. Probably that's just a coincidence, but I've gotten circumspect. I have no problem with the peaks that are already on lists, or are so hard to reach in terms of stamina/skill or driving that those factors alone will weed out the casual and often inconsiderate masses.

EDIT:grammar.
Last edited by MoapaPk on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby cdog » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:13 pm

I posted a new mountain page here on summitpost, a peak in the Sierra Nevada that is relatively obscure. Apparently it wasn't cool or popular enough in the voting system as the entire page was deleted. I contacted the help elves and they explained that poor voting and low popularity can lead to information being deleted. It's too bad that the current system doesn't attact expanding the information base for new mounatains.
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby visentin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:20 pm

I don't think SP should be taken for responsible. Of course banalization on the web may play a role, but I think we just live an era when more and more people seek to go to the mountains, including a lot of people who could not afford it before for many reasons.
The result is often that a minority causing troubles for which the whole community pays for. In the Pyrenees, not abundantly described on the internet (neither in French), all shepherd huts used to be open to anyone including hikers some decades ago, under the obvious condition that you leave it as you found it.
Unfortunately it is not obvious for a fair number of people, but if it was just that, we could cope with it. But no, some folks push the insanity till using tables and benches, sometimes parts of the roof carpentry, as wood to make their own easy fire. Not to mention really cruel ideas like locking a cow in it. Now most of these huts are closed with a locker and unless you know the good spots, you cannot hike the Pyrenees the way it used to be...
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby mvs » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:28 pm

I think the funny thing about SP in Europe is that there are very committed members who spend valuable time making beautiful pages. But even moderately active members are all so spread out across the countries that we can't usually share experiences from the same places. It's really just a handful of people, easily dwarfed by the membership of Colorado alone, yet spread over a much wider and more diverse area.

I don't think creating mountain pages is the most important thing about Summitpost for European users. I think it should be used as a platform to share current conditions and introduce climbers to each other. Because that just doesn't exist in Europe! (more on this below). Because of the number of highly technical climbs in the Alps, guidebooks will be with us for decades I think, even if they move to electronic form. In the U.S., it seems like you can rely on Summitpost as a free resource for the areas Dow Williams frequents, which is an incredible accomplishment. How many DWs would Europe need and for how many years must they labor to catch up to thousands of proprietary pages/topos? That, until they are replaced by Summitpost, need to be purchased at considerable expense? We don't have anyone doing that.

I often wonder where Europeans get their current condition information. Coming from the Pacific Northwest, I felt that an online source was invaluable, for example the WTA.ORG site to know when trailheads were snowfree for driving to. This information system seems to be not only less important, but also to operate on a smaller, more private and segmented scale. Less important because those living in the populous flatlands book a multi-week trip to the mountains well in advance. They don't need "beta," they are just not there or there. More private because a tendency to segment information flows only begins with language. It extents to country, club, sub-specialty. So for example, in order to discover if certain high trails are open I might be best off going to a German "klettersteig" website if I know that the trailhead includes a famous via ferrata. Finally, pre-internet networks must continue to function very highly - what else to explain the dearth of good conditions information for the German, Swiss, Austrian, Italian Alps? This would involve calling the hut warden, or guide services. The huts are the most reliable source, I think now.

Chamonix is special, because highly motivated London and Paris-based climbers want to go for the weekend, or precious short holidays (the British).

Finally, it must be considered that my continuous chewing on this topic is an artifact of my American character. Time-saving Convenience as virtue. I never heard anyone say "Yeah, I Agree!" to any of it. People here are more tolerant of making mistakes in weekend planning and discovering alternatives on the fly. This is admirable for sure! But I'm still hoping for a better current condition network.
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Re: Are all mountains on SP ? :)

Postby gert » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:34 pm

mvs wrote: .................. But I'm still hoping for a better current condition network.


Did you try: http://www.gipfelbuch.ch - not a perfect site , but you find some comments about conditions in the area, at least for swiss mountains.
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