Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Ascending Webbing

Post climbing gear-related questions, offer advice. For classifieds, please use that forum.
 

Ascending Webbing

Postby benjydaniel » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:59 am

Does anybody, or has anybody ever ascended webbing? is it possible and are there ascenders made to do that?
User Avatar
benjydaniel

 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:23 am
Location: Vernal, Utah, United States
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Re: Ascending Webbing

Postby DanTheMan » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:42 pm

benjydaniel wrote:Does anybody, or has anybody ever ascended webbing? is it possible and are there ascenders made to do that?


The Kong Duck and the newly announced Wild Country Ropeman 3 both say that they can ascend webbing.
DanTheMan

 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:24 am
Thanked: 18 times in 7 posts

Postby nartreb » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:01 pm

It's probably a bad idea though. Webbing isn't very good at resisting abrasion, and jugging up is a good way to repeatedly rub it, weighted, over some little corner in the rock.
User Avatar
nartreb

 
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:45 pm
Location: online or in boston, Massachusetts, United States
Thanked: 106 times in 87 posts

Postby brenta » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:59 pm

bcknfrth wrote:Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?


http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/Qualifying_a_Rescue_Rope.pdf
User Avatar
brenta

 
Posts: 1978
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:43 am
Location: Boulder, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 20 times in 16 posts

Postby b. » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:27 pm

brenta wrote:
bcknfrth wrote:Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?


http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/Qualifying_a_Rescue_Rope.pdf


Well there you have it. Webbing doesn't hold up to abrasion.
User Avatar
b.

 
Posts: 2217
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:34 pm
Location: Livingston, Montana, United States
Thanked: 10 times in 10 posts

Postby Autoxfil » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:39 pm

bcknfrth wrote:
nartreb wrote:It's probably a bad idea though. Webbing isn't very good at resisting abrasion, and jugging up is a good way to repeatedly rub it, weighted, over some little corner in the rock.


Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?
What kind of webbing are you using? We use ropes of kernmantle construction because the core is protected by the sheath, which isn't needed for strength. Webbing has the load bearing fibers on the outside. Ever try to cut a string with a knife without putting it under tension? That's like cutting a rope sheath, because the tension is (mostly) in the core - not easy. Now, if you pull it tight and drag it across the edge - it cuts easily. That's what happens when you cut webbing.
User Avatar
Autoxfil

 
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:40 pm
Location: NEPA and Upper Jay, United States
Thanked: 36 times in 29 posts

Postby fatdad » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:58 pm

OK folks. Young, inexperienced climber asking for some information when it's clear he probably needs some instruction and/or proper equipment. Let's not enable someone on what could be an ill-advised quest.
User Avatar
fatdad

 
Posts: 1377
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:39 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California, United States
Thanked: 83 times in 57 posts

Postby MoapaPk » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:03 pm

Autoxfil wrote:
bcknfrth wrote:
nartreb wrote:It's probably a bad idea though. Webbing isn't very good at resisting abrasion, and jugging up is a good way to repeatedly rub it, weighted, over some little corner in the rock.


Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?
What kind of webbing are you using? We use ropes of kernmantle construction because the core is protected by the sheath, which isn't needed for strength. Webbing has the load bearing fibers on the outside. Ever try to cut a string with a knife without putting it under tension? That's like cutting a rope sheath, because the tension is (mostly) in the core - not easy. Now, if you pull it tight and drag it across the edge - it cuts easily. That's what happens when you cut webbing.


The webbing is probably lying flat for the abrasion test as well, exposing a lot more of the load-bearing fibers.

I have some 9/16" webbing slings that date back to the 80's, and they don't seem abraded at all. It's all in the use.

I think the toothed-gear (ascender) approach may do relatively little abrasion on webbing. They have been using webbing in some come-alongs, and in strap clamps, for some time, using a toothed-gear to hold the place. I think some rescue folks like to put ascenders on webbing.

That said, webbing sucks for traditional ascent via prussik or klemheist. Initially it is too slippery, then when it cinches up, you can actually melt the outside with the heat produced. I've seen it cut nearly through when draped over a "sharp" surface (in this case the fire-hardened edge of a bristlecone log).

Continuing an earlier suggestion:
"The Ropeman Mk3 has new shape of cam and new forged side plates make it easy to place on ropes between 7.7 and 11mm and can be used with both nylon slings and ropes. It's use on tape means that it's use on belays is more adaptable, allowing adjustment on belay slings quick and safe. This will be a big hit with guides and those involved in rescue. "

It strikes me that they are not using the ascender for ascending on webbing, but as part of the belay system, as a rope clamp.
User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7603
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Thanked: 738 times in 476 posts

Postby DanTheMan » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:53 pm

MoapaPk wrote:
Autoxfil wrote:
bcknfrth wrote:
nartreb wrote:It's probably a bad idea though. Webbing isn't very good at resisting abrasion, and jugging up is a good way to repeatedly rub it, weighted, over some little corner in the rock.


Webbing isn't good at resisting abrasion? What kind of webbing are you using?
What kind of webbing are you using? We use ropes of kernmantle construction because the core is protected by the sheath, which isn't needed for strength. Webbing has the load bearing fibers on the outside. Ever try to cut a string with a knife without putting it under tension? That's like cutting a rope sheath, because the tension is (mostly) in the core - not easy. Now, if you pull it tight and drag it across the edge - it cuts easily. That's what happens when you cut webbing.


The webbing is probably lying flat for the abrasion test as well, exposing a lot more of the load-bearing fibers.

I have some 9/16" webbing slings that date back to the 80's, and they don't seem abraded at all. It's all in the use.

I think the toothed-gear (ascender) approach may do relatively little abrasion on webbing. They have been using webbing in some come-alongs, and in strap clamps, for some time, using a toothed-gear to hold the place. I think some rescue folks like to put ascenders on webbing.

That said, webbing sucks for traditional ascent via prussik or klemheist. Initially it is too slippery, then when it cinches up, you can actually melt the outside with the heat produced. I've seen it cut nearly through when draped over a "sharp" surface (in this case the fire-hardened edge of a bristlecone log).

Continuing an earlier suggestion:
"The Ropeman Mk3 has new shape of cam and new forged side plates make it easy to place on ropes between 7.7 and 11mm and can be used with both nylon slings and ropes. It's use on tape means that it's use on belays is more adaptable, allowing adjustment on belay slings quick and safe. This will be a big hit with guides and those involved in rescue. "

It strikes me that they are not using the ascender for ascending on webbing, but as part of the belay system, as a rope clamp.


That is because there is normally no reason to be ascending webbing, at least none that I have ever heard of. Maybe the original poster can elucidate the issue.
DanTheMan

 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:24 am
Thanked: 18 times in 7 posts

Re: Ascending Webbing

Postby Augie Medina » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:06 pm

benjydaniel wrote:Does anybody, or has anybody ever ascended webbing? is it possible and are there ascenders made to do that?


Why do you ask? That might help get you a direct, suitable answer.
User Avatar
Augie Medina

 
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: South Pasadena, California, United States
Thanked: 10 times in 7 posts

Re: Ascending Webbing

Postby benjydaniel » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:35 am

Mountain Impulse wrote:
benjydaniel wrote:Does anybody, or has anybody ever ascended webbing? is it possible and are there ascenders made to do that?


Why do you ask? That might help get you a direct, suitable answer.


Thanks man. I ask cause after a bungee jump I want to be able to quickly accend up something light. A lot of jumping is kind of fast and undercover... It's hard to haul around a rope for that kind of thing.
User Avatar
benjydaniel

 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:23 am
Location: Vernal, Utah, United States
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Postby benjydaniel » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:39 am

fatdad wrote:OK folks. Young, inexperienced climber asking for some information when it's clear he probably needs some instruction and/or proper equipment. Let's not enable someone on what could be an ill-advised quest.


Dude that's a tool bag thing to say, ya I'm young but don't assume I'm clueless and inexperienced. Look at my post above and that should let u know where I'm going with this.
User Avatar
benjydaniel

 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:23 am
Location: Vernal, Utah, United States
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Postby Autoxfil » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:42 pm

The speed and safety gained from a rope are very much worth the weight.

Drop down to an 8 or 9mm static line to save weight and bulk. Just keep it well away from sharp edges and buy ascenders that grip it well.
User Avatar
Autoxfil

 
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:40 pm
Location: NEPA and Upper Jay, United States
Thanked: 36 times in 29 posts

Next

Return to Gear

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.