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Bernese Oberland mountains' names

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Postby Diego Sahagún » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:17 pm

Aar: eagle
Haar: hair

Christian why do you say that aar means creek :?:

BTW, Arve is the river wich goes through Chamonix-Mont Blanc but we are translating Swiss German to English. Aren't we :?: Even we are talking about Bernese Oberland mountains' name as I said in the topic's title
Last edited by Diego Sahagún on Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Ejnar Fjerdingstad » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:19 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:Ejnar, there is no need of :!: BTW, we enjoyed our journey to The Alps (France, Italy and Switzerland) without paying any guide. You had said that we should have been at least three roped


Glad to hear that you had a nice trip to the Alps, I hope the weather was good!
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Postby Moni » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:28 pm

Ejnar Fjerdingstad wrote:
Tell that to Bruno Tibet and other AGW'ers! :lol:


What is true for the Alps may not be true elsewhere - there are large regional variations in climate fluctuations, both usual as well as man influenced.
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Postby Moni » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:29 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:Aar: eagle
Haar: hair

Christian why do you say that aar means creek :?:

BTW, Arve is the river wich goes through Chamonix-Mont Blanc but we are translating German to English. Aren't we :?: Even we are talking about Bernese Oberland mountains' name as I said in the topic's title


Look here: Aar is an early German word for creek or river.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aar_%28Lahn%29
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Postby cb294 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:40 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:Aar: eagle
Haar: hair

Christian why do you say that aar means creek :?:

BTW, Arve is the river wich goes through Chamonix-Mont Blanc but we are translating German to English. Aren't we :?: Even we are talking about Bernese Oberland mountains' name as I said in the topic's title


Aar, Aare, Ache, or place names ending in -ach all denote creeks and rivers. E.g. the town of Eisenach translates as "iron creek".

CB
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Postby Ejnar Fjerdingstad » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:25 pm

Moni wrote:
Diego Sahagún wrote:Aar: eagle
Haar: hair

Christian why do you say that aar means creek :?:

BTW, Arve is the river wich goes through Chamonix-Mont Blanc but we are translating German to English. Aren't we :?: Even we are talking about Bernese Oberland mountains' name as I said in the topic's title


Look here: Aar is an early German word for creek or river.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aar_%28Lahn%29


It is a name of some rivers and creeks yes, but it also means eagle, and as a matter of fact that is the only way the word is translated in my two German dictionaries. To wit: Gyldendal's German-Danish Dictionary, "Aar m. (especially poetical, old-fashioned), eagle". (I have translated this into English, so you can understand.) But we could appeal this to Charles!
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Postby Ejnar Fjerdingstad » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:28 pm

Moni wrote:
Ejnar Fjerdingstad wrote:
Tell that to Bruno Tibet and other AGW'ers! :lol:


What is true for the Alps may not be true elsewhere - there are large regional variations in climate fluctuations, both usual as well as man influenced.


So then the whole world my not be threatened by AGW? Nice to hear!
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Re: Bernese Oberland mountains' names

Postby Diego Sahagún » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:43 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:Does Finsteraarhorn mean Dark-haired Peak :?:

Does Lauteraarhorn mean Peak With An Only Hair :?:

Finster: Dark
Haar: Hair
Horn: Peak
Lauter: Only

Finsteraarhorn = Dark Eagle Peak :?:
Lauteraarhorn = The Peak with an Only Eagle :?:

Finster: Dark
Aar: Eagle
Horn: Peak
Lauter: Only
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Re: Bernese Oberland mountains' names

Postby Diego Sahagún » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:00 pm

cb294 wrote:
Diego Sahagún wrote:Does Finsteraarhorn mean Dark-haired Peak :?:

Does Lauteraarhorn mean Peak With An Only Hair :?:

Finster: Dark
Haar: Hair
Horn: Peak
Lauter: Only


Hi Diego,

not really.

"Finster" indeed means "dark", but "Aar" refers to a stream / creek / river, "horn" means horn.

"Finsteraarhorn" therefore would translate as "horn-shaped mountain above the dark river / at the end of the dark river valley".

"Lauter" could mean "louder" (very unlikely) or "lots" (not "only"!) or "pure/clear". Hard to say which of these -if any- applies, but again it most likely refers to the river ("Lauteraare", or something like that). My guess would be "mountain above the clear stream".

Guess it goes to show that the people naming these mountains were most interested in what was at the bottom rather than the top. There are many other examples for this in the Alps. Just of the top of my head, the Grosse Möseler in the Zillertal Alps is named so because of the swampy alpine meadows beneath it. Similarly, Alpspitze is called so because it is above the only alpine meadows ("Alp") suitable for keeping cows on that side of Garmisch.

Cheers,

Christian

Then:

Finsteraarhorn = Peak above the Dark Creek
Lauteraarhorn = Peak above the Clear Creek

:?:
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Postby Diego Sahagún » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:11 pm

It's curious that no Swiss have said anything here...
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Re: Bernese Oberland mountains' names

Postby Ejnar Fjerdingstad » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:03 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:
Diego Sahagún wrote:Does Finsteraarhorn mean Dark-haired Peak :?:

Does Lauteraarhorn mean Peak With An Only Hair :?:

Finster: Dark
Haar: Hair
Horn: Peak
Lauter: Only

Finsteraarhorn = Dark Eagle Peak :?:
Lauteraarhorn = The Peak with an Only Eagle :?:

Finster: Dark
Aar: Eagle
Horn: Peak
Lauter: Only


But "lauter" in German also means 'pure, clean, clear, sheer', so Lauteraarhorn = Sheer eagle peak!
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Postby Ejnar Fjerdingstad » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:07 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:It's curious that no Swiss have said anything here...


Yes indeed, but you would want somebody who grew up at the foot of the peak, and to ask him what his mother told him it meant!
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Postby EricChu » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:08 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:It's curious that no Swiss have said anything here...
Well, then let me - a swiss myself, despite living in Austria - say something here: The whole massif, with the name "Aarmassiv" is known as the source area of the river Aare, the second longest river in Switzerland, which flows through the cities of Interlaken, Thun, Bern, Biel, Solothurn, Aarau and Brugg before continuing at Koblenz - the Koblenz in Switzerland! - as the Rhine (in reality, it's the Swiss Rhine that joins the Aare, not the other way around!). Thus, the name "Finsteraarhorn" has to be seen in this connection. "Finster" means "dark", referring to the dark color of the rock, and "aar" stands for the river Aare, which comes from the glaciers of this massif. The name "Aare", by the way, is not a reference to the type of eagle named "Aar" in German, but is derived from the latin word for water. "Au", "Aa", "Ache", even "Aachen", these names all have to do with water.
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Postby Diego Sahagún » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:22 pm

:arrow:
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Postby Diego Sahagún » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:29 pm

EricChu wrote:
Diego Sahagún wrote:It's curious that no Swiss have said anything here...
Well, then let me - a swiss myself, despite living in Austria - say something here: The whole massif, with the name "Aarmassiv" is known as the source area of the river Aare, the second longest river in Switzerland, which flows through the cities of Interlaken, Thun, Bern, Biel, Solothurn, Aarau and Brugg before continuing at Koblenz - the Koblenz in Switzerland! - as the Rhine (in reality, it's the Swiss Rhine that joins the Aare, not the other way around!). Thus, the name "Finsteraarhorn" has to be seen in this connection. "Finster" means "dark", referring to the dark color of the rock, and "aar" stands for the river Aare, which comes from the glaciers of this massif. The name "Aare", by the way, is not a reference to the type of eagle named "Aar" in German, but is derived from the latin word for water. "Au", "Aa", "Ache", even "Aachen", these names all have to do with water.

Thanks a lot Eric, it's so explanatory
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