Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Changes to Voting System

Suggestions and comments about SummitPost's features, policies, and procedures. Post bugs here.
 

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:53 pm

Scott wrote:Why is it impossible to receive a score between 20-69%?

It isn't impossible at all. But it's not going to happen when a bunch of folks give a page an 8.

That's the root of this issue. No system is going to know when you are unfairly downvoting a page unfairly vs when a group of people give 8s without much constructive thought. Sounds like your issue is more with the other voters than the system.
User Avatar
mrchad9

 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:01 am
Location: San Ramon, California, United States
Thanked: 1187 times in 800 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Scott » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:06 pm

Sounds like your issue is more with the other voters than the system.


Much of it, yes. But, a page with a bunch of “bad” votes is rated the same as a page with 3 or 4 four good ones. I do not think it's right and is counter productive to quality control.

Is it really feasible to expect enough votes within a month to consider the page score stable?


No, but there are hundreds (perhaps thousands) of good route pages on this site that have only a few votes. The one above was just a random example.
User Avatar
Scott

 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:03 pm
Location: Craig, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 473 times in 265 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Montana Matt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:43 pm

Scott wrote:Much of it, yes. But, a page with a bunch of “bad” votes is rated the same as a page with 3 or 4 four good ones. I do not think it's right and is counter productive to quality control.

It is possible to increase the rate at which votes under 5 decrease the score. Is that what you're suggesting?
Scott wrote:No, but there are hundreds (perhaps thousands) of good route pages on this site that have only a few votes. The one above was just a random example.

I believe it. I mean, I don't know that we can expect the system (or any system, for that matter) to work perfectly when you have only a handful of people voting on a page. And unfortunately popularity will drive the number of votes, not quality. I'm not sure that there is a way around this...
User Avatar
Montana Matt
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:06 pm
Location: Ashland, Oregon, United States
Thanked: 335 times in 181 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Scott » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:53 pm

It is possible to increase the rate at which votes under 5 decrease the score. Is that what you're suggesting?


Yes; that would be a good start.
User Avatar
Scott

 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:03 pm
Location: Craig, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 473 times in 265 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:54 pm

Scott wrote:
Sounds like your issue is more with the other voters than the system.


Much of it, yes. But, a page with a bunch of “bad” votes is rated the same as a page with 3 or 4 four good ones. I do not think it's right and is counter productive to quality control.

But this page doesn't HAVE any bad votes Scott! What is the basis for your complaint?

Do you have a solution? I you have a proposal for an addition to the algorithm that doesn't present more problems than it causes I'll be the first to back it up.

Montana Matt wrote:
Scott wrote:Much of it, yes. But, a page with a bunch of “bad” votes is rated the same as a page with 3 or 4 four good ones. I do not think it's right and is counter productive to quality control.

It is possible to increase the rate at which votes under 5 decrease the score. Is that what you're suggesting?

This page has a 6, 5, 8, 7, 8, and a 6. Scott's complaint is that everyone didn't give it a 5 or less. The score looks appropriate for the votes it got to me.
User Avatar
mrchad9

 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:01 am
Location: San Ramon, California, United States
Thanked: 1187 times in 800 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:55 pm

Scott wrote:
It is possible to increase the rate at which votes under 5 decrease the score. Is that what you're suggesting?


Yes; that would be a good start.

So you want a page with six votes to have a crap score if one person votes a 5?

Bad idea.
User Avatar
mrchad9

 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:01 am
Location: San Ramon, California, United States
Thanked: 1187 times in 800 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Scott » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:00 pm

But this page doesn't HAVE any bad votes Scott! What is the basis for your complaint?


The "complaint" is that no matter what the next person votes, the page score will not be affected hardly at all (unless a lot of people immediately gain up on the person and start voting down, which will probably cause hurt feelings).

This page has a 6, 5, 8, 7, 8, and a 6. Scott's complaint is that everyone didn't give it a 5 or less. The score looks appropriate for the votes it got to me.


The complaint is not that everyone didn’t give it five stars, but that a 6, 5, 7, 8, and a 6 is equal to 3 10’s. To me, it doesn't seem right.
Last edited by Scott on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User Avatar
Scott

 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:03 pm
Location: Craig, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 473 times in 265 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:03 pm

So make a proposal.

Simply changing the weight of scores under 5 doesn't chane this, and present other problems.

What's is your recommendation?
User Avatar
mrchad9

 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:01 am
Location: San Ramon, California, United States
Thanked: 1187 times in 800 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Scott » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:05 pm

What's is your recommendation?


Once a page receives a certain amount of votes, score should level off, rather than increase. It should be easier to have a page score between 20-69%. The scoring system needs to be more linear. Scores are too uniform even though votes are not and have a big spread. With the new algorithm, scores are grouped all together rather than spread out between 0-100%.

Everyone could come up with their own algorithm and none are perfect. Still, the old one was still better IMHO than the new one, despite being flawed.

I could try to come up with one, but everyone won't like that one either. One that allows a spread between 0-100% is best and one that levels off after a certain amount of votes are reached.
Last edited by Scott on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
Scott

 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:03 pm
Location: Craig, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 473 times in 265 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:12 pm

LOL! Linear! You complained a couple weeks ago because you thought votes didn't increase the score enough, and now you wan the score to be both linear AND level off? That is not possible.

So once a page has 5 votes you want future votes to be meaningless?

Propose an algorithm Scott. Otherwise you have so solution here, just complaints. Based on what you've outlined so far I do not think you will find something that meets your requirements (unless it gives your vote more weight than everyone else's).
User Avatar
mrchad9

 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:01 am
Location: San Ramon, California, United States
Thanked: 1187 times in 800 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Scott » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:16 pm

You complained a couple weeks ago because you thought votes didn't increase the score enough


Really? Show me? It was the other way around.

===========================================================================================================================================================

Here is what I wrote:

If you take a nearly blank page (this is a random example), here is how the scoring changes when I vote:

http://www.summitpost.org/medetsiz-tepe/780188

Current score 69.51%.

The score changes to the following when I vote:

1/10: 15.02%
2/10: 68.61%
3/10: 68.88%
4/10: 69.14%
5/10: 69.39%
6/10: 69.65%
7/10: 69.90%
8/10: 70.16%
9/10: 70.40%
10/10: 70.65%

Is this intentional because the 10/10 score system is going away?

It appears the only way one could really change the score is to vote 1/10.

So once a page has 5 votes you want future votes to be meaningless?


No, only more or less level off eventually if all the votes are 10/10 and exactly the same. Too much emphasis is on the number of votes rather than the average rating of the vote.

I could try and come up with an algorithm, but give me a while.
Last edited by Scott on Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User Avatar
Scott

 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:03 pm
Location: Craig, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 473 times in 265 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Montana Matt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:22 pm

Scott wrote:With the new algorithm, scores are grouped all together rather than spread out between 0-100%.

That's more a result of the voting habits of the users than the algorithm behind the score calculation. People still aren't voting between 1 and 7 very often. Do you have a proposed equation for calculating scores on an even spread between 0% and 100% when there are only 5 votes on a lot of pages and those votes are all 10s?
User Avatar
Montana Matt
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:06 pm
Location: Ashland, Oregon, United States
Thanked: 335 times in 181 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:22 pm

Scott you just want your vote to count and not everyone else's.

Propose an algorithm (third time I suggested this). Or just keep whining. Up to you.
User Avatar
mrchad9

 
Posts: 4116
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:01 am
Location: San Ramon, California, United States
Thanked: 1187 times in 800 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Scott » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:34 pm

Scott you just want your vote to count and not everyone else's.


Not so. I just don’t feel that a 6, 5, 7, 8, and a 6 should be equal to 3 10’s.

It sounds to me that yatsek was more or less saying the same thing:

As there is no doubt that scores do not do justice to the quality of pages, I wonder if it would be possible to display – beside the page score – the actual average grade, e.g.
http://www.summitpost.org/ironton/836476 Page Score: 78.87% Average Grade: 9.9
http://www.summitpost.org/chamber-of-th ... ute/836000 Page Score: 72.64% Average Grade: 9.67
http://www.summitpost.org/traverse/835810 Page Score: 72.09% Average Grade: 7.75


Apparently you aren’t understanding what I’m saying.

Forget it then.

Propose an algorithm (third time I suggested this).


I will, but need some time.
User Avatar
Scott

 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:03 pm
Location: Craig, Colorado, United States
Thanked: 473 times in 265 posts

Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Montana Matt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:37 pm

Thinking some more...Scott, are you saying that you wish votes would more quickly move the score away from the starting point (currently set at 70%), but that once many votes are cast, the score would level off in some way?

That may be possible with a tweak to the equation? You think Chad?
User Avatar
Montana Matt
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:06 pm
Location: Ashland, Oregon, United States
Thanked: 335 times in 181 posts

PreviousNext

Return to Site Feedback

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.