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Changes to Voting System

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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby hansw » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:58 pm

Playing with the v3 score algorithm it is easy to arrive at an expression for the ratio between the numbers of votes based on different vote levels giving the same score.

To get the same score with all 9/10 votes as for all 10/10 votes 29% more votes are needed.

To get the same score with all 6/10 votes as for all 10/10 votes 9 times more votes are needed.

Etc.

------10-----9-----8-----7----6--
10-- 1.00 1.29 1.80 3.00 9.00
9--- 0.78 1.00 1.40 2.33 7.00
8--- 0.56 0.71 1.00 1.67 5.00
7--- 0.33 0.43 0.60 1.00 3.00
6--- 0.11 0.14 0.20 0.33 1.00
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:09 pm

Precisely hansw. Your math is correct.

The reason for this is that a 5.5 is treated as a neutral vote. In the calculation, a 10 is then treated as a 4.5 (10-5.5 = 4.5).

So a 9 is a 3.5, 8 is a 2.5, 7 is a 1.5, and 6 is a 0.5.

And 4.5 divided by 3.5 minus 1 = 29 %

1-5 brings a score down, and to do this they are treated as -4.5, -3.5, -2.5, -1.5, and -0.5.
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby lcarreau » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:52 pm

mrchad9 wrote:We need a good mechanism to help identify and highlight pages that have been fixed up and improved. Will have to think on that.


Chad, I just "fixed up" two of my pages that have received negative votes in the past. Who do I contact to have these negative votes removed?
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Sarah Simon » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:29 pm

lcarreau wrote:
mrchad9 wrote:We need a good mechanism to help identify and highlight pages that have been fixed up and improved. Will have to think on that.


Chad, I just "fixed up" two of my pages that have received negative votes in the past. Who do I contact to have these negative votes removed?


Strangely enough, my name's not Chad, but why don't you contact the people who voted on the page letting them know the page has been revised and they might want to take a look at the fresh content?
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Josh Lewis » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:41 pm

lcarreau wrote:
mrchad9 wrote:Who do I contact to have these negative votes removed?


The elves. :wink: Just let us know what pages and we can work this out appropriately. Remember a 9/10 does good to a page now. :)
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:03 pm

lcarreau wrote:
mrchad9 wrote:We need a good mechanism to help identify and highlight pages that have been fixed up and improved. Will have to think on that.


Chad, I just "fixed up" two of my pages that have received negative votes in the past. Who do I contact to have these negative votes removed?

What Josh and Sarah said.

You can also post the request in this thread: adopted-adopting-a-page-t55045.html

Keep in mind that you are better off leaving any vote that is 6 or higher now. So either PM folks to take another look or leave those alone. If there are old votes 1-5 they can be deleted as you wish.
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby lcarreau » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:17 pm

mrchad9 wrote:What Josh and Sarah said.


I'm not sure why the pages received bad votes, other than the fact they needed serious updating.

I would RISK bruising my TREMENDOUS EGO by contacting the voters directly, as they might say the pages still look like crap ... at least far as content goes.

Guess I'll leave this in the hands of the able-bodied Elves. Gracias .... :D
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Josh Lewis » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:58 pm

mrchad9 wrote:Keep in mind that you are better off leaving any vote that is 6 or higher now.


Sometimes a 6/10 can do damage in some cases. I think of it as a middle ground vote... sorta. Now once we are down to a 5/10... watch OUT! :o (I couldn't resist saying that)

lcarreau wrote:I'm not sure why the pages received bad votes, other than the fact they needed serious updating.

I would RISK bruising my TREMENDOUS EGO by contacting the voters directly...


Well if it needed serious updating, it's no surprise. :wink: The way I see it, we have a duty to down vote bad pages. Even if they are our friends. Otherwise all the score would really mean is "how popular this peak is". :? (well okay, so maybe its a little more complicated than that) But nice guys will contact the page owner first before down voting. :)

Tell you what Larry, if you feel you have done a good job, you contact an elf, if they feel the same way, I say it's fair game for the vote to be removed.
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby David Senesac » Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:42 am

Just noticed tonight the voting changes and this way too long to read thread discussing it. Good that there is an interest in changing the voting process. However I have doubts the results will be meaningful. I have not actively voted for years because it was not meaningful. What I have voted for years ago was primarily the photos though will participate voting on the page content if the system improves. Some points.

Continuing 10 to 1 voting values will be a mistake because members will tend to associate numbers of the old system. Many will be annoyed they are supposed to start voting differently and ignore it. Making the old way impossible thus has value. Better to force voters out of the old mindset by making it different. Thus something like a 5 point system is probably better. It could of course be translated by an algorithm back to a 10 point value.

I think a mixed rating combining views plus voting has value. Some members vote a lot while others will not. However everyone will look at feature pages and photos. Thus integrating views brings in the member elements that won't vote.

The number of views an image receives has always been a better indication that people like a photo than votes. Think about it. A person goes to a mountain page and sees all the thumbnails. The ones they choose to look at have meaning and interest. If they are sequencing through all the images, only ones they look at for say at least 10 seconds might receive a view. However if such were used as a voting value, one would need to limit the number of views to just one to say three from given members. In other words someone might ask a friend to view their image 100 times but that ought not be counted more than one to just a few times.

The other element that has value is when someone bothers to leave an actual comment. A wiser system might require anyone voting a 10 must leave a comment else the max would be say 9. Likewise anyone voting 1 would need to post a comment as to why else it could only be a 2.

A major issue that makes the value of voting low is that many good images and good feature pages are out of sight and out of mind. Once a photo drops below first page visibility even if it is a top image, members may never see it. Thus there ought to be a way to bring images pushed down in the stack up to top page visibility in the days and weeks after first being loaded. So instead of just displaying the top voted image thumbnails, using a split screen where half the image thumbnails are from recently loaded images down in the stack offers more reasonable visibility. Same thing for feature pages like mountain pages. There are many excellent mountain pages that get almost no visits because they do not have a famous name. Find a way to bring a few of those out randomly to the top home pages.
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby mrchad9 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:41 am

David the intent of the voting system was to improve people's ability to vote on object pages like mountains and routes... not images. I don't expect many would ever do anything than 10s on images no matter what the process. There are some valid points you make with hits affecting popularity of images, but it wouldn't apply to mountain pages as that would be more driven by the popularity of the peak rather than the quality of the page.
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Scott » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:34 pm

I don't expect many would ever do anything than 10s on images no matter what the process.


Back in the days before the 10/10 system was implemented, this was certainly not the case and many people would vote 0-4 stars. In fact, few photos that had a lot of votes would receive the maximum score on every vote.
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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby lcarreau » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:20 pm

Josh Lewis wrote: But nice guys will contact the page owner first before down voting. :)

Tell you what Larry, if you feel you have done a good job ...


I kinda see what you're saying, but the "member" who down-voted made NO attempt to contact me. Ahhh, such is the internet!

Me thinks some of us "Older Buzzards" should step aside to let the "Younger Guns" have their chance to hit the target .... :D


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Re: Changes to Voting System

Postby Josh Lewis » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:30 am

lcarreau wrote:Me thinks some of us "Older Buzzards" should step aside to let the "Younger Guns" have their chance to hit the target .... :D


Tell that to Stallone. He's still going hard and not blowing any smoke. :wink:

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