smurfer wrote:If you go before the next snowfall you wont need chains to get to the valley for sure. (not a patch of snow on the road all the way through tioga pass on the weekend just past). I didn't get checked the last two weekends in my 2wd passat. But yeah, chains are formally required, but I doubt it would be an issue in a 4x4

Following the last few posts, while I said you would be okay without chains (I certainly understand the reason for the rules as highlighted here), I assumed we were talking about an experience/sensible person keeping an eye on the weather.

mrchad9 wrote:dyusem calling motorists who make intelligent and well-grounded decisions (like not buying and carrying around chains for 4wd vehicles) mindless is inappropriate.

dyusem wrote:While I never have owned chains for any of my 4WD vehicles

I rest my case.

You have no case to rest. You called Caltrans/CHP doucebags for enforcing a good policy under adverse conditions and you take parts of my post and post them out of context.

It is obvious that you've never lived in the Sierra and had to deal with mindless flatlanders. That is not to say that most of those people weren't aware of the dangers of transiting the Eastside...in fact a large majority were aware BUT like most societal issues, a small proportion of people ruin it for everyone.

On the other hand, I've *never* been asked to see chains on either the CA or NV side of Donner pass- and there were years where I was driving that stretch twice a week.

There have been times when the pass was profoundly unsave to drive on. Complete whiteouts, winds enough to move your car sideways, zero traction ice slicks. I've been chaperoned through the pass with by a CalTrans maintenance truck, I've been stuck while they closed the road while I was driving on it, but I've never been asked for chains.

These were all under "R2" restrictions. I'm pretty sure that I would rather wait it out than try to drive on R3.

It isn't a good policy dyusem, if there is never an instance of a 4wd vehicle being legally required to put chains on. You have yet to identify a time when that has occurred.

But true... I have very little experience driving in the Sierra. I wonder what it must be like?!?!? LOL.

mrchad9 wrote:It isn't a good policy dyusem, if there is never an instance of a 4wd vehicle being legally required to put chains on. You have yet to identify a time when that has occurred.

But true... I have very little experience driving in the Sierra. I wonder what it must be like?!?!? LOL.

Jeez mrchad9, you should read just a bit slower: I never said that you have no experience driving in the Sierra: I said that you must have not lived in the Sierra by which life has not given you the experience of having to deal with people who have no clue how to drive in adverse road and weather conditions.

I have seen many times when R3 was up on 395 between Sherwin Grade and the CA/NV border. The policy (that was mentioned in an earlier post on this thread)of stopping vehicles on the Grade before they have left the Bishop area is a good one. If you think otherwise, great...whatever...

dyusem wrote:I never said that you have no experience driving in the Sierra: I said that you must have not lived in the Sierra by which life has not given you the experience of having to deal with people who have no clue how to drive in adverse road and weather conditions.

And how is it that you serpose that I have experience driving in the Sierra, but none dealing with others who drive in the Sierra?

Do you get all your experience dealing with bad drivers by watching them from your living room?

mrchad9 wrote:

dyusem wrote:I never said that you have no experience driving in the Sierra: I said that you must have not lived in the Sierra by which life has not given you the experience of having to deal with people who have no clue how to drive in adverse road and weather conditions.

And how is it that you serpose that I have experience driving in the Sierra, but none dealing with others who drive in the Sierra?

Do you get all your experience dealing with bad drivers by watching them from your living room?

Apologies to the OP...this has back and forth has turned into a joke...this will be my last post in response to mrchad9:

By "dealing" I mean rescuing people that become stranded, in an accident or otherwise stuck in potentially life-threatening weather conditions. If that is what you mean by dealing with people under those types of conditions, I apologize for thinking that you have not lived in the Sierra. If you mean navigating highways while sharing the road with unaware/incapable drivers, perhaps you should move to the mountains for a few seasons and tell me after that experience whether you've changed your feelings.

FWIFW, my living room is the outdoors...ciao.

Money says SpazzyMcgee will not be putting chains on his friend's Subaru due to R3 requirements, or be required to present them. Any takers?

Thanks for the distraction dyusem. Your divergence from the OP's objective has been a welcome refresher in forums that have otherwise become mostly dead due to ongoing technical issues with the site, lack of updates and advancements, and other specific events that have led many members to become largely absent.

On a note far more serious than showing how legit we all are,



Anyone know where I could get chains for my pogo stick?

I am sorry too Spazzy for going "off-route" with this.




But I blame dyusem and CalTrans for this one.





dyusem, if you would have invited this guy to your home for 1 year and then taught him how to drive on snow/ice, this could have been avoided.




And I blame CalTrans for not putting the 4x4 AND chain requirements into affect.





This could have been avoided.

mrchad9 wrote:...a welcome refresher in forums that have otherwise become mostly dead due to ongoing technical issues with the site, lack of updates and advancements, and other specific events that have led many members to become largely absent.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIXLHtg2Btk[/youtube]

Are you sure you've completely grasped and proven why many members are largely absent from the forums?

Anyway, Chad, I thought I banned you from Yosemite threads and suggested that you release all memories of that anger inducing place from your brain at Burning Man. It seems like one of your main goals is to debate/argue, so I'm not sure anything besides a first hand account from an SP member specific to exactly what you are seeking will satisfy you. Oh well, maybe we can make it to Burning Man in 2012.

I can say that I have heard of people being checked and turned away for not having chains in CA national parks. I know it seems amazing, given the lack of snow this year, but I can also say that I recently used chains for the first time because I was in a situation where I needed them, despite having a 4X4. Other times I've been fine without them in conditions that would have been a problem for some vehicles, or for some drivers (not that I'm extremely experienced myself yet). I recently pulled another stuck 4X4 out of slick ruts on a roadway without my chains.

I started carrying chains if I know I will be going to areas with snow or with significant snow in the forecast. It's better than ending up turned around by enforcers, ticketed, stuck, or crashing. Sometimes they are necessary or helpful even if they are not required, regardless of if in a 4X4. A lot depends on the specific conditions, the specific vehicle, the specific type of chains, the tires, and the logistics of the specific location. As noted by others, sometimes it is better not to go into some situations, 4X4 or not, and whether carrying chains or not, and sometimes a road is simply impassable.

While not Yosemite, nor a standard expamle, IIRC, the tragic recent story from Mt. Ranier NP involved a veteran with signs of PTSD who blew through chain control checks and later shot a ranger who was running another roadblock looking for the scofflaw. The man later succumbed to exposure, while the ranger's husband and children were left to live without her.

Hopefully we won't have too many SP members who end up singing this tune due to stances against the law, be it the laws of government, the laws of nature, or social laws:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-1Ihwt48EM[/youtube]

zzzzzzzz

Well, if I can't convince SP members to stay away from that horrible place, just think of this the next time you see a ranger in Yosemite.





By the way, I wonder if anyone sells plush toy versions of Yosemite Sam. We can post one at the base of Half Dome in case anyone gets testy while permits are being checked.

I have an AWD Subaru and once stopped at Chinquapin by a control spot to put chains on. I thought it was pain but hey, rules are rules. So I climb out to put on chains and a ranger comes up to me and says very politely, "Sir, in your car, don't worry about it. You can go on ahead."

Last winter, up at Big Bear, I stopped at a similar chain stop. They noticed that my car has mud and snow tires (M + S) and told me not to worry about it.

Option #1: Buy and Carry a pair chains that fit your vehicle(regardless if your vehicle is 2X, 4 X 4 or AWD) so when and/or if you are ever asked by the folks at any Chain Control Stop to produce them and then do, subsequently allowing you to continue on your marry way.

OR

Option #2: Don't carry any chains regardless vehicle type then when and if you are asked to produce them at any Chain Control Stop, you can't, and then basically tell the CCS folks to kiss your ass, subsequently be told to turn around or remain in line for God knows how long (up to 48 hours in some cases here locally at the bottom of the Bishop Grade or up at Walker just north of Walker Pass).

Bishop/Minden area Motels and businesses love it when Caltrans/CHP impose and vigilantly monitor mandatory R2 and then R3 restrictions and the proverbial wise asses argue with the CHP. They did it over 12 times last season alone. On three occasions for over 48 hours due to high drift conditions as a results of blowing snow.

R2: Chains or traction devices are required on all vehicles except four wheel/ all wheel drive vehicles with snow-tread tires on all four wheels.(NOTE: Four wheel/all wheel drive vehicles must carry traction devices in chain control areas.)

R3: Chains or traction devices are required on all vehicles, no exceptions.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/wntrdriv.htm


Just thought I would add to obvious Option available. FWIW, as DSKOON posted, I too have, carry them all the time in both of my 4X4 Trucks and have had to actually put them on several times the past three seasons between Bishop and Lee Vining. Now back to my hiding....