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Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

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Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Josh Lewis » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:08 am

Happy New Year folks, with a new year comes new changes to SummitPost. A brand new version of SP is on the horizon which is planned to help benefit the user experience. The purpose of this thread is to gather community input on a new system of voting. Anything not related to voting goes in the other threads.

What is very likely:

A quick vote method that allows you to vote a 10 on images from beta pages. This uses a check icon in the image caption. See a live example here. The example does not actually "vote" right now but it does show you exactly what it would look like. Once actually implemented the check icon will stay orange to show that you have voted on that image.

check.png
check.png (272.14 KiB) Viewed 2643 times

Because we know some might not like it, there will be an option to enable/disable this feature from the profile.

preferences.png
preferences.png (16.79 KiB) Viewed 2643 times

Potential New Voting System

I am proposing the idea of swapping from a 10/10 system to a 5 star system. The reason for this is to simplify voting in the minds of the user. In the mountaineering world we rate routes based on a 1-5 system, same goes for movie ratings and other types of reviews. A 10/10 system is actually much more rare because of it's seemingly "overwhelming" number of choices. We all like choices, I know I do. But the rating system currently is not being utilized to use the full scale. One very big reason for this is because there are too many choices per vote. A very respected member of SummitPost once said "at times I find myself debating between a 8/10 or 9/10, in the end I vote a 10/10 because it's easier to do". Here is a live example of the stars on a page. Keep in mind that your vote does not actually stay due to it not being hooked up, but it does show what it could look like and has stars on hover.

stars.png
stars.png (365.94 KiB) Viewed 2643 times

If we swapped to stars, we could easily insert them into the quick vote method. I have created an example which if you hover over the images, you will see 5 stars you can hover over. This is an alternative to the check icon method. To give the people of SP what they want, we plan on having profile preferences which allows you to choose what quick voting method you can use (check icon, stars, none). Another variation to this idea is to allow half stars which would basically allow "precise voting" but still have a simple feel to it. Here is an example of half star voting.

hover-stars.png
hover-stars.png (468.15 KiB) Viewed 2643 times

List of Possibilities

Note: Quick vote basically means that it allows for various methods to be used to quickly vote directly from a beta page. In our examples it can be a check icon, a star, a 10/10 bar, or none.

  • Change 10/10 system to a 5 Star System with quick vote.

  • Stick with Current Voting method with quick vote.

  • Change 10/10 system to a 5 Star System that supports half stars. Essentially it would be a 10/10 system with a simplified look of a 5 star system. Quick vote methods included.

  • Stick with Current Voting method but have main vote appear on hover instead of stars (plus quick vote)

  • Stick with Current Voting method but have a quick method that shows stars (4/5 equals a 8/10)
* All of these possibilities include preferences and the check method of voting

Where you Come in:

But before we change the main voting system we need to hear from the community and make sure your interests are fulfilled. My intentions are to use the best practices but at the same time I want to make sure the community gets what they want. So please voice your opinion on this. If you want to see it changed to stars, voice your support. If you don't, then mention that you want the main vote to stay the same.

FAQs

What will happen to votes if we swap to a 5 star system? Depends on if we have half stars included. If half stars are included, We could simply change 10/10's to 5 stars and 9/10's to 4.5 stars. 1/10 would be a 0.5/5 stars. But if the community was against the half star idea, we could have a 8/10 be 4/5 stars and a 9/10 be bumped up to 5/5 stars. Basically a non half star system could round a .5 star up.

What if I don't want to see a quick vote? You will be able to disable it from the profile. No problem. 8)

I like the quick vote stars, but don't want it to effect the 10/10 system If the community is against going to a 5 star vote for the main vote, we could still have a 5 star vote for hover. As stated above it could translate a 4/5 star to a 8/10 and a 5/5 to a 10/10. Because the quick method is a choice, it won't effect anyone who doesn't want it. Unless the word "stars" concern you when editing your profile. :wink:

Credits: Bob Sihler originally proposed a method to more easily vote. I created a hover vote which was okay. Mr. Chad then came up with the idea of using a check icon to give a 10/10. After much discussion I went forward with actually coding it (display wise) as well as my method of a 5 star system. Because both methods have minor issues we could not come to a full agreement (the check icon affects captions, stars only show on hover). This is where preferences saved the day. :)
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Matt Lemke » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:55 am

Thanks Josh!

I honestly would rather use the star system since the check system will affect captions. So, having both implemented will be my vote!
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Liba Kopeckova » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:25 am

Sounds good with me - I like stars :)
+ it appears that pretty much every voter is still stuck on voting only 10/10, very few exceptions. Perhaps giving less stars will be easier on us = voters rather than some numerical values.
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Josh Lewis » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:30 am

Liba Kopeckova wrote:Perhaps giving less stars will be easier on us = voters rather than some numerical values.


Thanks Liba for voicing your opinion. If we went to stars, the plan is to use 5 stars. 10 would look even more complicated than it is right now! :wink:
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Fred Spicker » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:56 pm

Funny how what goes around comes around - When SP was first started, Version 1 I guess, all voting was on a four star basis. There was the option of "no stars" which really made it a 5 star system of sorts. You also had the option of putting comments directly with your vote thus explaining it. I have some screen captures of some very "interesting" comments by some members who later flamed out.
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby desainme » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:12 pm

So what would come of the archived votes? x to x/2 What about 7, would it become 3 or 4? Stars seem friendly kinda evoke music lessons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCjJyiqpAuU
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby yatsek » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:13 pm

Fred Spicker wrote:Funny how what goes around comes around - When SP was first started, Version 1 I guess, all voting was on a four star basis.

As a matter of interest, did a 3 increase the page score or was it negative like a 9 in Version 2?
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Scott » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:43 pm

As a matter of interest, did a 3 increase the page score or was it negative like a 9 in Version 2?


In the old system, there was no percentage. It was simply an average of the amount of star votes; for example, one two star vote and one four star vote, would make the average page score 3 stars. There were really only two disadvantages to the old system. One was that in the old system was that people would create multiple avatars and upvote their own stuff (or downvote other's stuff), which was a problem with several members. Another was that a page with one 4 star vote would be "scored" higher than a page with 200 four star votes and one 3 star vote.

Funny how what goes around comes around - When SP was first started, Version 1 I guess, all voting was on a four star basis. There was the option of "no stars" which really made it a 5 star system of sorts. You also had the option of putting comments directly with your vote thus explaining it.


Yes, and in my opinion, the old star system was better. It was only changed because a few vocal members wanted a 10/10 system. In my opinion, this was a mistake. It was easier to tell the difference between a 3 star and a 4 star page vs the difference between a 9/10 and 8/10 page. Now even on blank pages people vote 10/10.

Change 10/10 system to a 5 Star System that supports half stars. Essentially it would be a 10/10 system with a simplified look of a 5 star system. Quick vote methods included.


Josh, in my opinion, other than perhaps displaying an average (which probably is not necessary), ditch the half stars. What is the difference between a 3 star and a 3 1/2 star? Five options in more than enough. As we can see from SP history, the more options available, the more people will get confused or ignore them and just vote the highest every time.
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby yatsek » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:26 pm

Please just do not describe a 5/5 page as "the best ever." I think "almost very good to excellent" would make much more sense.
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Tracy » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:38 pm

I give "5 Stars" or an old-fashioned "10" to the 5 Stars voting idea :) .
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Cy Kaicener » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:53 pm

Sounds like its worth a try - Thanks Josh
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Josh Lewis » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:01 pm

Scott wrote:There were really only two disadvantages to the old system. One was that in the old system was that people would create multiple avatars and upvote their own stuff (or downvote other's stuff), which was a problem with several members. Another was that a page with one 4 star vote would be "scored" higher than a page with 200 four star votes and one 3 star vote.


With the new voting algorithms and public votes these two things should not be an issue. :)

Scott wrote:Josh, in my opinion, other than perhaps displaying an average (which probably is not necessary), ditch the half stars. What is the difference between a 3 star and a 3 1/2 star? Five options in more than enough. As we can see from SP history, the more options available, the more people will get confused or ignore them and just vote the highest every time.


I completely agree with this. I had to put the option on the table just in case people were concerned about losing the ability to precisely vote. I personally want it full stars.
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby AlbertoRampini » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:04 pm

I think that "5 stars" - 5 options + 1 another option (no votes) - are enough. A question: does a "1 star" vote - the minimum - increase or lower the page's score?
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby Josh Lewis » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:10 pm

desainme wrote:So what would come of the archived votes? x to x/2 What about 7, would it become 3 or 4?


All old votes would still remain. If we went with whole stars, a 7/10 would be converted to a 4/5. I figure rounding up is what the community would prefer. We could round down if the community was more in favor of that. :wink:

AlbertoRampini wrote:A question: does a "1 star" vote - the minimum - increase or lower the page's score?


A one star would most certainly decrease the page score. Think of it was a 2/10. If we wanted the 1/5 star to do just as much impact as a 1/10, I'd bet that it wouldn't be hard to implement it.
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Re: Changes to Voting (Opinions Please)

Postby chicagotransplant » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:18 pm

I like a straight 5 star system with the quick voting, and like Scott suggested having the half stars display in the average only.

Like Scott mentioned, images with few votes might end up at the top of the heap, not sure how to resolve that, but at the very least still show the total number of votes a page/image received.

Thanks!
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