Welcome to SP!  -
Areas & RangesMountains & RocksRoutesImagesArticlesTrip ReportsGearOtherPeoplePlans & PartnersWhat's NewForum

Climbing fatality in Yosemite Valley

Regional discussion and conditions reports for the Golden State. Please post partners requests and trip plans in the California Climbing Partners forum.
 

Postby Craig Peer » Tue May 11, 2010 5:38 pm

I don't know if you have ever used one of these for rapelling. I have and it's scary because to rap down.... you pull the lever back and you freefall intill you release the lever and you stop instantly. BAM right on the anchor!!!!!!!!!!


That's not necessarily true - you can get a smooth rope feed and stop, although it is tricky and takes practice. However, relying on a knot jammed against a rappel ring ( without that backup carabiner ) was the cause of the accident - not the use of a Cinch. And was an admitted mistake ( see the Supertopo thread ).

Your comment on carabiner brake rappels is incorrect too - they are perfectly safe when done correctly - I used them for many years, and wouldn't hesitate to use one now. Everyone should know how to do one in case they drop thier ATC !!
User Avatar
Craig Peer

 
Posts: 3986
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 10:34 am
Location: California, United States
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts

Postby The Chief » Tue May 11, 2010 5:44 pm

Craig Peer wrote:Your comment on carabiner brake rappels is incorrect too - they are perfectly safe when done correctly - I used them for many years, and wouldn't hesitate to use one now. Everyone should know how to do one in case they drop thier ATC !!


Good point Craig! Efficiently knowing alternative ways to rap will keep ya alive in case ya lose your primary device.

BUT! I will use a Munter long before I ever use a Biner Break to rappel on.

Far too many pieces and things that can go wrong when using a BB Rap System.

KISS will in fact keep us all alive.

And I totally agree with GUY and the rest that insist we use the right tools and eq for the purpose that they are specifically designed for.

Not one of those Auto Belay devices is designed to rappel on and not one of their manu's condones the use of their product to do so.
The Chief

 
Thanked: time in post

Postby Craig Peer » Tue May 11, 2010 5:54 pm

The account from the partner was very well written and detailed the cause very well, I would recommend everyone read it, but I dare not link it here...


http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/threa ... 065&tn=140

See Japhy's post.
User Avatar
Craig Peer

 
Posts: 3986
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 10:34 am
Location: California, United States
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts

Postby x15x15 » Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm

Misha wrote:Hold on... Is this the Brian I am thinking of!?


if its the same brian i thought of, i know it is not. i know you have climbed with the brian i know from sierra madre.

RIP Brian.
User Avatar
x15x15

 
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2003 4:48 pm
Thanked: 23 times in 16 posts

Postby The Chief » Tue May 11, 2010 6:37 pm

Craig Peer wrote:
The account from the partner was very well written and detailed the cause very well, I would recommend everyone read it, but I dare not link it here...


http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/threa ... 065&tn=140

See Japhy's post.


I can also post a very well written, detailed and vivid first hand account from the YOSAR Sup (which many of you know over on ST) that was there to do the follow up investigation and remove the remains. He sent me a pretty basic email this morning discussing the situ. Many here may also not agree with simple yet what many may consider harsh opine.

But, I won't as it does not add anything POSITIVE and as does none of the other on-sight emotional blow by blow accounts of the fall and ensuing events.

What does matter is that this sad incident have a good ending through positive discussions which may lead others out there rethink how they do things when their asses are 100% on the system and they have no longer have any control when they unclip from the anchor.

Ensuing investigations have positive outcomes only when done and then published by those that have no ties to actual incident nor the victim.

We should ALL wait to see what the final investigation/analysis is of this very traumatic incident that hopefully will never happen again.
The Chief

 
Thanked: time in post

Postby Misha » Tue May 11, 2010 6:48 pm

x15x15 wrote:
Misha wrote:Hold on... Is this the Brian I am thinking of!?


if its the same brian i thought of, i know it is not. i know you have climbed with the brian i know from sierra madre.

RIP Brian.


Unfortunately, it is the same Brian I thought of. We hung out at Lovers Leap over Labor Day in 2007. It just went from tragic to flat out awful :(
We were topping out on Selaginella, about half a mile away from Serenity Crack when this accident happened
User Avatar
Misha

 
Posts: 3914
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 9:13 pm
Location: Woodside, California, United States
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Postby Guyzo » Tue May 11, 2010 7:05 pm

Craig Peer wrote:
I don't know if you have ever used one of these for rapelling. I have and it's scary because to rap down.... you pull the lever back and you freefall intill you release the lever and you stop instantly. BAM right on the anchor!!!!!!!!!!


That's not necessarily true - you can get a smooth rope feed and stop, although it is tricky and takes practice. However, relying on a knot jammed against a rappel ring ( without that backup carabiner ) was the cause of the accident - not the use of a Cinch. And was an admitted mistake ( see the Supertopo thread ).

Your comment on carabiner brake rappels is incorrect too - they are perfectly safe when done correctly - I used them for many years, and wouldn't hesitate to use one now. Everyone should know how to do one in case they drop thier ATC !!


Craig please don't get me wrong. The carabiner brake I referred to wasn't "the carabiner brake rap" using 6 ovals... rather it was using the "brake bar" from a cavers rap deal, or a baby angle, and just one oval.... when I started climbing this was a hot topic because several known fatalities had occurred. When I first went to the Valley, the fellows I started climbing with threw mine into the Merced River and instructed me on how to rig the 6 biner system, the munter and the dulfersitz all good simple methods.

All methods are OK as long as you don't overlook the obvious flaws, in this case "the knot that went past the ring"

I follow that to the "root cause" - IMHO- rapping on a "belay devise" down one strand only, takes out the basic redundancy of having both lines in your hands that go around the anchor.

After I tried rappelling on a grigri I was shocked :shock: :shock: that folks would even consider it a valid use of this tool (IMHO).

I don't like to use stuff that is ..... "tricky and takes practice" to use. :wink:

But call me old and stuck in my ways..... you wouldn't be the first. :wink:
User Avatar
Guyzo

 
Posts: 2567
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:11 am
Location: Moorpark, California, United States
Thanked: 24 times in 13 posts

Postby Augie Medina » Tue May 11, 2010 7:40 pm

Guyzo wrote:

I don't like to use stuff that is ..... "tricky and takes practice" to use. :wink:


Practice is one thing, but "tricky" is another. I can do without relying on "tricky" things when non-tricky devices for the activity at hand abound.
User Avatar
Augie Medina

 
Posts: 787
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:56 pm
Location: South Pasadena, California, United States
Thanked: 10 times in 7 posts

Postby Dave Dinnell » Tue May 11, 2010 7:43 pm

Yeah, Mike, by report (What caused system to fail), they usually tied a back-up w/ 'biner and then removed the 'biner after each rap, then repeated. On the last rap, he forgot to add the back-up w/biner. Initial knots (with two diff. diam. ropes) passed through, and no back-up w/'biner.

Very sad. And sobering. I know climbers really like keeping their rope systems light, but... When I was in college, couldn't afford two ropes of any diameter. We used to just tie on our partners' lead rope as the extra "tag" for full length raps.

edit: seems Mike removed his post.
User Avatar
Dave Dinnell

 
Posts: 1220
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 3:55 pm
Location: Davis, California, United States
Thanked: 4 times in 4 posts

Postby x15x15 » Tue May 11, 2010 7:50 pm

Misha wrote:
x15x15 wrote:
Misha wrote:Hold on... Is this the Brian I am thinking of!?


if its the same brian i thought of, i know it is not. i know you have climbed with the brian i know from sierra madre.

RIP Brian.


Unfortunately, it is the same Brian I thought of. We hung out at Lovers Leap over Labor Day in 2007. It just went from tragic to flat out awful :(
We were topping out on Selaginella, about half a mile away from Serenity Crack when this accident happened


i am really sorry to all family and friends.
User Avatar
x15x15

 
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2003 4:48 pm
Thanked: 23 times in 16 posts

Postby rhyang » Tue May 11, 2010 7:54 pm

My condolences to all who knew him. How few the degrees of separation there really are in our community. RIP :(
User Avatar
rhyang

 
Posts: 8963
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: San Jose, California, United States
Thanked: 58 times in 37 posts

Previous

Return to California

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2006-2013 SummitPost.org. All Rights Reserved.