Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

Post climbing gear-related questions, offer advice. For classifieds, please use that forum.
no avatar
profjiang

 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:35 am
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by profjiang » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:06 am

Hello everyone,

I have a question regarding weight savings and carrying appropriate emergency gear to survive a winter night in the New Hampshire White Mountains should someone get injured and it becomes necessary. I often carry a 20 degree synth bag, an old tent fly to use as a tarp or ground cloth and a full length Z-Lite pad. Also in the pack is an MH Subzero down parka. It seems to me that there is probably a better way of doing this - lighter and smaller. The bag in particular seems overkill, considering that I'm also carrying the down parka and that one could dig a snow cave. What is your preferred emergency kit for cold places? Does anyone have experience with the SOL emergency bivy sacks? I was thinking that an alternate kit would be a lighter weight down bag, emergency bivy, the Z-lite and a lighter weight jacket like the Patagonia Nano Puff. I also have a pair of MH Chugach insulated pants that could be added to the kit. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks!

no avatar
splattski

 
Posts: 429
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:04 am
Thanked: 67 times in 55 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by splattski » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:42 pm

A friend relayed this motto to me:

"Fast and light, cold at night"

User Avatar
adventurer

 
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:24 am
Thanked: 214 times in 139 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by adventurer » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:35 pm

On a winter day hike in the Whites I always take a sleeping bag. Mine is a Marmot Couloir "0" bag. Leaving your bag behind to save a little weight is not worth the risk. Extremely low temps and wind chill in the Whites at night are life threatening.
"When you travel, if you avoid the people, reject the food, ignore the customs, and fear the religion..... you might as well stay home"
James A. Michener

no avatar
profjiang

 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:35 am
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by profjiang » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:48 pm

Thank you for your responses everyone. When I wrote, "The bag in particular seems overkill", I didn't intend to suggest not bringing any bag, as is seen at the bottom of the original post and I apologize to everyone for not communicating that effectively. I was referring to weight savings and implying that could be one area for a lighter alternative. When I added "considering that I'm also carrying the down parka", my thoughts were about a light down bag, bivy sack, with insulating layers worn inside. There is a stove carried in the group, group size is 2-3. I have spent time in the Whites in the winter and also have had cold weather experience glacier climbing in Alaska. It's been a couple years since I've gotten out, but am looking forward to some day hikes in the Whites this winter and I do want to be safe. I was just curious what everyone else carries for emergency gear for these activities. Thanks!

User Avatar
ExcitableBoy

 
Posts: 3666
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am
Thanked: 663 times in 496 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by ExcitableBoy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:57 pm

So, I've never climbed in NH, but I have done a lot of alpine climbing in the PNW in winter and the AK range in early spring. While I have not had an unplanned, open bivi in the PNW in winter, I have had one on the summit of a peak in the AK in early spring. I would guess early spring in the AK range has similar temperatures to the Whites in winter?

My kit is as follows:

Warm belay jacket (Wild Things Belay Parka for AK and Rainier in winter, Micropuff elsewhere)
3/5 of a Z-Rest which I use as the back panel of my back pack
Stove/pot/fuel
Shovel

The belay parka and foam pad I would bring anyway, the stove kit and shovel add only 2.5 pounds and can split between a 2 or 3 person alpine team. This adds a huge amount of survivability, yet adds very little weight. You want to bring enough gear to survive a night, but not necessarily enjoy it.

User Avatar
Kai

 
Posts: 722
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:26 pm
Thanked: 56 times in 42 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by Kai » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:40 am

A bothy bag is a great piece of gear, both for unplanned bivies, and also for foul weather lunch/rest stops.

http://alpineteam.co.nz/2014/rab-superl ... thy-review

http://www.campsaver.com/superlite-bothy-bag-4-person

http://www.campsaver.com/bothy-bag-8-person

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHmfxOBB3Ug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5YFgKKhhDM


A Blizzard Bag is a good emergency sleeping bag. In combination with your winter clothing, it's a good way to stay warm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5dpNDikYJE (note, that this guy's claim that it will keep you warm at -40 is BS. It's good to +40 with light clothes)

http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/product ... rvival-bag


The other thing I would take is material to make a fire. Utility Flame is a good fire gel material. Can help get a fire started, even in wet, snowy conditions. A decent knife is also helpful in this respect. If you're below tree line, a fire can save your life.

http://beprepared.com/utility-flame-sin ... fgodc6YA1A

User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7780
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Thanked: 787 times in 519 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by MoapaPk » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:18 am

When I "hike" alone in winter I carry a blizzard bag plus I put a double layer of aluminized bubble wrap in the back of my pack. I surely would not be comfortable, but my main aim would be to survive the night. I would not sleep well, and would activate my SPOT if needed. One of my friends always carried a very light snow shovel, as a snow cave could add a lot to one's chances of survival.

The issues that always bother me: 1) the blizzard bag looks sweaty (if I should ever be so lucky to get that warm), even though it has perforations. 2) I sweat more than most folk, and typically get very wet when digging a snow cave.

You can make a very light, sewn-through elephant's sock with 900 fill down; but you still must provide a pad below your butt, the warm upper garment, and a storm-proof cover. I used a down parka and elephant sock for my primary sleeping system for a few months, and found that it was my upper body that got cold.

no avatar
profjiang

 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:35 am
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by profjiang » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:51 pm

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. Have a happy Thanksgiving!

User Avatar
nartreb

 
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:45 pm
Thanked: 184 times in 155 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by nartreb » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:14 am

In the Whites, if you're above treeline you may have great difficulty finding enough snow for a cave. Same is true below treeline in early season (like right now). Plus, have you ever built/dug a snow cave? It takes a lot longer than you might expect. Plus, have you hiked with a shovel? Kind of a pain in the rear. (In an emergency, snowshoes work as shovels. But now digging takes even longer.) Bag + tarp/bivy sac is a much more flexible option.

Get a down bag zero degrees or thicker, it'll probably still be lighter and smaller than the synthetic bag your'e carrying now. You also need a tarp or bivy sac to wrap the bag in and keep the snow off.

(A tarp can also be used to construct a litter, if you can find a couple of long straight pieces of wood for poles. Believe it or not the incredibly simple technique shown in this video works really well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOrU3XBFVRc )

Keep the foam pad too - that's perhaps *the* most useful piece of emergency gear you can have in winter. If somebody's injured and needs to be taken care of, you need to keep them off the snow, even just to sit down.

Other important gear: thermos full of piping hot water, to which you can add, when the need arises, packets of something like powdered jello: lots of sugar and a bit of protein: great for rehydrating, refueling, and rewarming somebody who's in trouble. You don't want to sit around waiting for a stove if you can avoid it.

It's odd that you count your down jacket as emergency gear. Everybody should have their own already, and most people will use theirs whenever the group comes to a halt. If somebody gets hurt, the first thing you do is put your warmest jacket on yourself, because your'e going to be standing still at least until you come up with a treatment/evacuation/rescue plan.

Down jacket + bivy sac *might* keep you alive, but will probably cost you at least a couple of toes. On cold nights I'll wear my down jacket inside my sleeping bag, inside my tent.

User Avatar
MoapaPk

 
Posts: 7780
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 7:42 pm
Thanked: 787 times in 519 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by MoapaPk » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:48 pm

when I went with other folks I carried a blizzard BLANKET rather than the bag. The difference is that the blanket starts open, and can be closed up around an injured person. I think it might be hard to get someone with a spinal injury or broken leg inside the tight blizzard BAG.

User Avatar
asmrz

 
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 7:52 am
Thanked: 248 times in 157 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by asmrz » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:22 pm

I think it all depends on several things.

First, where am I going?

There would be a huge difference in my bivi gear selection depending on the location and time of year of my climb/hike.

Secondly, weight is ALWAYS of utmost importance. The famous Yvon Chouinard saying "If you bring bivi gear, you will bivi" is right on. So try to do everything possible not to bivi. Start early, know your route up and down, know your speed and/or turn back when the summit is way too far.

In the few instances when I screwed up while NOT in technical terrain, the best option always was and is, walk out of there throughout the night. Most of us have enough strength to walk out to safety even after a long day of hiking. Don't ever forget your good quality headlamp!

In technical terrain the situation is different.

On very long alpine climbs I always carry bivi sack, gloves, hat and depending on the time of year, polypro underwear top and bottom. In the winter, in the Sierra, on overnight trips,one always carries a sleeping bag. Same situation applies in other alpine places in the US. But in general, and on day trips, one just wants to survive the unplanned bivi, not be as comfortable as possible. The philosophy of bringing enough bivi gear to be totally comfortable will result, in most instances, in exactly the thing you want to avoid.

So learn those things that will make safe travel in alpine terrain possible. It is rarely the gear we carry that makes us safe...

User Avatar
nartreb

 
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:45 pm
Thanked: 184 times in 155 posts

Re: Cold Weather Emergency Bivy Gear

by nartreb » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:00 pm

I agree with asmrz that walking out is your first option and that a headlamp (or two) should always be carried. The question was what to carry in order to be somewhat prepared for worse-case scenarios, especially in a large group that can distribute the weight of gear.

The question was specifically about winter in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, and about hiking rather than technical climbing. The #1 hazard is hypothermia. Overnight temperatures in the single digits Farenheit (below -10 C) are the average, and that's at trailhead elevations. If somebody gets hurt and is unable to walk, he is dead unless he can keep warm. A sleeping bag is a couple of pounds - well worth it even when solo.


Return to Gear

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests