Alpinisto wrote:Question for you's guys (esp. bird and brandon):

What's so special about the WOD that, once you know what all the exercices are and the proper techniques for performing them, you couldn't design your own program? Is it *that* hard to come up with a challenging workout regimen? Assuming that you're logged your workouts, wouldn't it be possible to go back and use previous WOD's, but with increased weights (lifts)/longer distances (sprints)/shorter recovery intervals, etc.?

I'm a big fan of paying for value, which it sounds like these programs provide -- to an extent -- but I hate paying for stuff with limited/no value. Once the knowledge has been imparted, which I don't mind paying for, is it just the motivational/competitive aspect of these programs that keep people signed-up (which certainly has SOME value)?

Disclaimer: I don't work out nearly often enough nor intensively enough (and I haven't checked out the CF/GJ/MA sites in a long time) so I'm not 100% sure how they're currently set up.

Just to clarify CF WODS are free, Mtnathlete begins charging Dec 1.
The CF WODS are set up to maximize general physical preparedness. One of the best things about following the WOD's is that you will hit areas of weakness fairly regularly. For example, I hate jumping rope, but when it comes up in a WOD, I'll do it and now I am getting better at it. If you do your own programming, there is a tendency to stick with your "favorites". CF claims some "magic" to the programming, which I don't really see from the outside, but the results for most followers imply they are doing something right.
As for mtn athlete, you could very well go back and print all his workouts from last year and go through those. Other than providing 3x a week workouts (which are generally pretty good), mtnathlete does not provide much value for the reader (there is value in what he does in the gym and seminars, etc. Just not that much on his site vs CF)
As for knowledge being imparted, once I took the CF level 1 seminar, the main thing it taught me was how much more there is to learn. Crossfit has the Crossfit journal for $25 a YEAR. With video's articles, etc. Plenty of value there.
All that being said, I do about 50% of my own programming now. (after 3 years of CF/MTA). I'm finishing a "strength cycle" now and will be moving on to endurance/sport specific for the winter.

Alpinisto wrote:Question for you's guys (esp. bird and brandon):
Once the knowledge has been imparted, which I don't mind paying for, is it just the motivational/competitive aspect of these programs that keep people signed-up

Dude, it's the community aspect. We keep coming back here to summitpost don't we. Bird digs being part of the crossfit community. I called a friend recently I hadn't talked to in 2 years. I just started doing crossfit she said, expecting me to know what it is; it's a fad, a popular one, with huge brand awareness now.

And if you're going to a crossfit gym, they seem to be super suportive and motivating.

brandon wrote: it's a fad, a popular one, with huge brand awareness now.
And if you're going to a crossfit gym, they seem to be super suportive and motivating.

On the first part, I'm curious to see how much of a fad it is. On the one hand just about everything (except Google) seems to gain popularity, peak and then trail off. But with most people getting results, won't they stay? If CF simply plateaus, is it a fad? Also, I'm amazed how many people I meet who workout and have never heard of crossfit.
On the second part. The couple of CF gyms I've been to are super supportive, a fun environment.

cross fit is simply cross training, which everyone should be doing to some extent. nothing new. props to them for making money out of it, and providing a community.

Ze wrote:cross fit is simply cross training, which everyone should be doing to some extent. nothing new. props to them for making money out of it, and providing a community.

BS

Crossfit explained: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsTbas5NgF0

I like the CF WOD and I like their ideas about x-training but $565 down & $165 a month!! That's crazy, especialy in today's economy and that sucks that mtnathlete is charging now. I loved that site. Here's a simple idea: M/W/F: Pushups-Pullups-Cruches, & calestinics till you puke. T/TH/SAT: Run or Bike fast.. Sun: Rest. Cost:$FREE

Or you could always go climbing.

Alpynisto wrote:Crossfit explained: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsTbas5NgF0

ROTFL That was the funniest damn thing I've seen in ages!!!

DANNYC wrote:I like the CF WOD and I like their ideas about x-training but $565 down & $165 a month!! That's crazy, especialy in today's economy and that sucks that mtnathlete is charging now. I loved that site. Here's a simple idea: M/W/F: Pushups-Pullups-Cruches, & calestinics till you puke. T/TH/SAT: Run or Bike fast.. Sun: Rest. Cost:$FREE

Or you could always go climbing.

Not all Crossfit Affiliates charge $565 down (or anything down for that matter). Crossfit online is still free.

bird wrote:

Ze wrote:cross fit is simply cross training, which everyone should be doing to some extent. nothing new. props to them for making money out of it, and providing a community.

BS

sure it is. it is a multitude of exercises. diverse.

that's not new.

you can get it without 'their' programs.

although I do find the Olympic lifting stuff funny. like most people need any specificity in training for those sort of movements, which are more likely to injure than provide specific benefit.

Ze wrote:

bird wrote:

Ze wrote:cross fit is simply cross training, which everyone should be doing to some extent. nothing new. props to them for making money out of it, and providing a community.

BS

sure it is. it is a multitude of exercises. diverse.

that's not new.

you can get it without 'their' programs.

although I do find the Olympic lifting stuff funny. like most people need any specificity in training for those sort of movements, which are more likely to injure than provide specific benefit.

Calling CF 'cross training' is a gross oversimplification. A swimmer who runs occasionally is cross training, but not doing crossfit.
True, crossfit is not new, but the programming, education, etc is packaged in a new user friendly version. Props to them.
Absolutely, Olympic lifts are technical and are best done with training. Just like climbing, if you learn to climb on your own you increase the likelihood of injury, but plenty of people do both without getting injured. The decision lies with the individual.
Again, "more likely to injure" is a broad statement. Got anything to back that up? In the opinion of the Olympic Committee the clean & jerk and the snatch are worthy of medals, training for them surely provides specific benefit. This articles sums up the benefits pretty well http://www.owresource.com/lifts/benefits.php
Ze, have you ever followed the CF protocol?

bird wrote:Calling CF 'cross training' is a gross oversimplification. A swimmer who runs occasionally is cross training, but not doing crossfit.
True, crossfit is not new, but the programming, education, etc is packaged in a new user friendly version. Props to them.
Absolutely, Olympic lifts are technical and are best done with training. Just like climbing, if you learn to climb on your own you increase the likelihood of injury, but plenty of people do both without getting injured. The decision lies with the individual.
Again, "more likely to injure" is a broad statement. Got anything to back that up? In the opinion of the Olympic Committee the clean & jerk and the snatch are worthy of medals, training for them surely provides specific benefit. This articles sums up the benefits pretty well http://www.owresource.com/lifts/benefits.php
Ze, have you ever followed the CF protocol?

sure it's more varied cross training than just 'running'. it's a whole bunch of stuff. I like the variety. If one is trying to improve in a specific sport, than that variety is cross training.

You are right, I am purely speculating on injury and may be wrong. your link indicates so. I get that olympic lifts provide certain benefits, and they should. but those 'athletic' benefits aren't in line with many activities, nor important for someone who just wants to stay in shape.

most people could do something else and not miss olympic lifts. even simple plyometrics may be more applicable for people who 'need' explosive jumping.

never followed the CF protocol. not saying I wouldn't though. I'm always looking to add different pieces and new variety. i've seen people doing them, and all I would say is, the keys to any successful workout program is intensity. you can go to the gym, outside on a track, picking up things in your garage, etc... and get a workout if you make the task coordinated and intense.

Ze wrote:never followed the CF protocol. not saying I wouldn't though. I'm always looking to add different pieces and new variety. i've seen people doing them, and all I would say is, the keys to any successful workout program is intensity. you can go to the gym, outside on a track, picking up things in your garage, etc... and get a workout if you make the task coordinated and intense.

So your dismissal of Crossfit is based on no personal experience. Makes it pretty meaningless. Sort of like reviewing a restaurant without eating there.
Here's the thing. Most people not following CF or mtnathlete etc. don't workout with intensity. Outside your core group of mountain runners, how many people do you honestly see working out intensely? Few? None? I give props to people in spin class, a lot of them work their tails off and get pretty good results (though I believe they are pretty one dimensional), but that's about it.
Try crossfit for just a couple of months, then I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

I've been doing Crossfit for about 4 years and it took me about a year to learn that it was a well balanced program. If you don't know what a balanced program is you will get HURT. I mainly follow the main page of Crossfit, but at times i do 5x5 Stronglift.com

Alpynisto wrote:Crossfit explained: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsTbas5NgF0

Priceless!!

My memory is murky, but didn't Mark Twight buy into crossfit for a while until he realized doing crossfit alone severely degraded his endurance?