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Die, Angeles Crest Highway, Die!

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Postby x15x15 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:01 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:
x15x15 wrote:
Gary Schenk wrote:
TacoDelRio wrote:The SGW... go around Mermaid Massif, south side of Twin Peaks, the cool rockfields on the less-than-accessible sections above Cogswell Dam, ain't gonna see many people there for sure.


A highway cuts the range in half. There ain't no wilderness. On the other hand, you're right about above Cogswell.


There is a flaw in this thinking...

the lights of Los Angeles and the San Gabriel Valley will ALWAYS penetrate the night sky of the San Gabriel Mtns, therefor, removing the road will do nothing for the wilderness.

i say KEEP the road and enjoy the backcountry. The crest will never be the wilderness it once was...


What backcountry? I want the backcountry back. If I have to walk a day to get there, I just don't see that as a drawback.


well gary, there is a bunch of backcountry in the crest, and i access a bunch of it from the ACH. it probably has more to do with semantics than anything else. ones person's backcountry is another person's trash pit... unfortunately, "wilderness" has been defined by the US Governement, and there will never be wilderness in the crest again... unless humans die!

Keep The ACH Open!
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Postby testid » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:52 pm

Gary, how about they keep the ACH open and when you want to go up there on your multi-day backcountry wilderness treks just let us know. We'll be sure to stay down here in the city. We can close the ACH so you don't have to hear the motorized vehicles. We'll get the DWP to dim the city lights so you won't be distracted by the urban glow at night. We'll release the captive bears, lions and big horns to make it feel more wild for you. Heck we'll even release the captive grizzly bears to really bring you back to when the San Gabriels were truly wild.

A bit of an elitist attitude you have there.

All hyperbole aside, and more to the point, closing the ACH will never happen - it lets everyone enjoy the mountains regardless of physical, financial, etc. situation while maintaining a very reasonable amount of "wilderness" for those who are so inclined to enjoy.
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Postby Luciano136 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:37 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:
testid wrote:Gary, how about they keep the ACH open and when you want to go up there on your multi-day backcountry wilderness treks just let us know.


I think you may not know what you've lost because of ACH.

But perhaps you're right. Should we call Disney and tell them we were wrong, Mineral King is all theirs? How about a highway to the Big Arroyo, so people don't need to walk two days to enjoy the beauty back there? Why should only elitists be allowed?

Why should sport climbers be denied easy access to Charlotte Dome? Why are only elitists allowed to Fish Paradise Valley?

It's a moot point anyway. Sooner or later, that highway is going to go away. Still, it's been fun chewing the fat about it with you guys.


So, just out of curiosity, how do you feel about Tioga Pass Rd or any road in Yosemite for that matter. Should we close them all?
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Postby testid » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:39 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:Still, it's been fun chewing the fat about it with you guys.

Yes, I enjoy banging my head against the wall as much as the next guy.
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Postby Ze » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:44 am

in Gary's mind, you need X square miles w/o road for something to be considered wilderness.

But X/2, whoooooa no way, it's practically urban now.
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Postby x15x15 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:40 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:I think you may not know what you've lost because of ACH.


no gary, i do not know. but then again, i aint quite as old as you.

in fact, i GAINED because of the ACH. Everything from rock and ice climbing, alpine climbing, AT touring, snow camping, etc.. i learned in the crest, BECAUSE of the ACH. so get off of your high horse and realize that not everyone wants your standards!
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Postby Fire4x4 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:48 pm

Gary Schenk wrote:
x15x15 wrote:
Gary Schenk wrote:
TacoDelRio wrote:The SGW... go around Mermaid Massif, south side of Twin Peaks, the cool rockfields on the less-than-accessible sections above Cogswell Dam, ain't gonna see many people there for sure.


A highway cuts the range in half. There ain't no wilderness. On the other hand, you're right about above Cogswell.


There is a flaw in this thinking...

the lights of Los Angeles and the San Gabriel Valley will ALWAYS penetrate the night sky of the San Gabriel Mtns, therefor, removing the road will do nothing for the wilderness.

i say KEEP the road and enjoy the backcountry. The crest will never be the wilderness it once was...


What backcountry? I want the backcountry back. If I have to walk a day to get there, I just don't see that as a drawback.


Why don't you move then?
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Postby butitsadryheat » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:22 pm

Hey Gary, I was talking to my dad about that new blend of asphalt you described (the quick draining stuff) and couldn't remember the name, and since PnP is gone, can't go back for it. Can you remember what you called it? Thanks in advance!
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Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:41 pm

Here's an interesting and pointless question: When and if Williamson Rock re-opens, how many bolt-clipping sport climbers would hike two days to climb there, if the ACH is closed? The answer is probably zero. I guess that's thread-drift...implying this rock is over-rated.

I remember in the 1970s a group of environmentalists were serious about ripping ALL THE ASPHALT and buildings out of Yosemite Valley, and allowing only backpackers to enter. Their idea gained no traction either.
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Postby jspeigl » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:00 pm

Steve1215 wrote:Here's an interesting and pointless question: When and if Williamson Rock re-opens, how many bolt-clipping sport climbers would hike two days to climb there, if the ACH is closed? The answer is probably zero.


Hmm... There is an interesting idea. If the road is closed, I wonder how many rangers would patrol to see if there is anyone climbing.
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Postby fatdad » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:03 pm

Steve1215 wrote:Here's an interesting and pointless question: When and if Williamson Rock re-opens, how many bolt-clipping sport climbers would hike two days to climb there, if the ACH is closed? The answer is probably zero. I guess that's thread-drift...implying this rock is over-rated.

I remember in the 1970s a group of environmentalists were serious about ripping ALL THE ASPHALT and buildings out of Yosemite Valley, and allowing only backpackers to enter. Their idea gained no traction either.


It wouldn't be that bad of a mt. bike ride from Wrightwood. It would still keep a lot of the fluff away, but certainly not everyone. Plus, if you could camp at that creek near the base, you'd have a pretty nice set up.
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Postby ksolem » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:35 pm

I think riding a bike up to Willie from Red Box would be brilliant (with no traffic.) It's not like you need to carry a double set of cams and two ropes.
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Postby fatdad » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:04 am

ksolem wrote:I think riding a bike up to Willie from Red Box would be brilliant (with no traffic.) It's not like you need to carry a double set of cams and two ropes.


That would not be an insignificant ride. What, about 25 miles one way with that long climb up to Buckhorn Summit or whatever it's called. It'd be a beaut though.
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Postby Luciano136 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:11 am

fatdad wrote:
ksolem wrote:I think riding a bike up to Willie from Red Box would be brilliant (with no traffic.) It's not like you need to carry a double set of cams and two ropes.


That would not be an insignificant ride. What, about 25 miles one way with that long climb up to Buckhorn Summit or whatever it's called. It'd be a beaut though.


That's what I was thinking. With all the extra time biking, I'm sure you could get to sweeter rock climbs than Williamson.
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Postby simonov » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:47 pm

I like to think I am a practical person.

I will endorse Gary's idea simply because the state of California can no longer afford to maintain a road that no one really needs.

It's well beyond the time when the residents of this state need to start thinking hard about what we really need and what we don't really need.
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