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Disappointed to say the least....

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Disappointed to say the least....

Postby Dow Williams » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:34 am

instead of adding crap like chat, etc. to the forums (20 folks running in circles basically), it sure would be nice to keep the contributor/beta use side of this site up and going at a reasonable speed for those of us driving outside traffic to it. Priorities eh Matt?
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby Montana Matt » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:52 am

I'm not sure I understand the necessity of this thread. There are already threads complaining about the chat software and there are already threads reporting the slowness of the site. I'm not sure why another thread was needed to cover both at once.

That being said, the slowness of the site is my top concern. I've been trying to figure out why the site is very slow at times for quite a while now. I've yet to figure it out. There seems to be times of the day that the number of hits to the site is abnormally high from specific IP addresses. Other times I think there may be something wrong with the MySQL or Apache settings. I've not yet got a definitive problem though. It's hard to correct something when you don't know what the source of the problem is.
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby Dow Williams » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:24 pm

That is a good one Matt. I speak up once in a blue moon and you whine about my complaints being repetitive? Maybe it is worth paying closer attention.

The issue for me Matt (and others), mostly just low life climbing beta contributors, not porn stars or schizophrenics with imaginary friends in PnP, is that we are stymied to see misc add ons to the site that offer no real value to providing beta to those perusing the Internet for same.

Not only is the site becoming too slow to be worthy of use for beta anymore, it is too slow for folks like myself, trying to revamp the Ice Climbing Forum for example after being asked to do so by the previous owner. To help contributors maintain a compilation of all the waterfall ice that has been climbed by members on SP....one would think that priority would rank a bit higher than the front page nepotism bs of adding more crap (best photo I could get all my friends to vote on; best article regarding the origin of the word "climb"; best five european hill tops reached by tram)....adding games and chat functions?????????????

All a bunch of bs compared to someone wanting to get out and go ice and/or rock climbing and trying to load a page describing conditions, etc. But hey, just keep pissing on the climbing folks and what this site use to be about, never much compared to Supertaco or Mountain Project....but a bit anyway. When is the last time Radek has added anything? There are others who quit as well. Keep it up Matt, you are doing a terrific job. Since you feel I complain too much, I will try to not post again in site feedback for another couple of years. Sorry to bother you.
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby jesu, joy of man's desiring » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:34 pm

Dow Williams wrote:...........not porn stars or schizophrenics with imaginary friends in PnP


Hey! How did you guess all that?

Right now I'm speaking to a 6ft-tall invisible pornographic rabbit--he's the best friend I ever had.

-=-
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby lcarreau » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:02 pm

It's all about setting priorities, and making good use of your time.

Do you want to be bombarded by information, or chat away your hours in an imaginary environment; far removed from the reality of struggling through an imperfect world ???

I think Pink Floyd said it best :


"Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day,
Fritter and waste the hours in an off-hand way ..
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town,
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way ..."

Image
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby Montana Matt » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:44 pm

Dow Williams wrote:That is a good one Matt. I speak up once in a blue moon and you whine about my complaints being repetitive? Maybe it is worth paying closer attention.

I'm not sure what makes you think I wasn't paying attention to the multiple other posts about the slowness of SP. It's been on my mind all day every day and at the top of my SP priority list for months now. Unfortunately there are many other things in my life that have taken precedence over the last several weeks that have essentially kept me away from the computer for nearly 5 full weeks.
Dow Williams wrote:The issue for me Matt (and others), mostly just low life climbing beta contributors, not porn stars or schizophrenics with imaginary friends in PnP, is that we are stymied to see misc add ons to the site that offer no real value to providing beta to those perusing the Internet for same.

I know and understand that it's the people like you, Dow, who contribute climbing beta, that make SP what it is. And I know that keeping the tools that allow contributors to create that beta running quickly and smoothly is the most important task for the site. It's always been at the top of my priority list. The miscellaneous add-ons that have been added recently were things that people requested that didn't take a lot of time to implement, which is a key factor in determining what I work on since I have a full time job and a hobby business that require the majority of my time. Remember that I work alone and any coding changes that are made, I have to do all of the coding, all of the testing, all of the debugging, etc. Any significant change is a huge time investment and even small ones can quickly eat up weeks.
Dow Williams wrote:But hey, just keep pissing on the climbing folks and what this site use to be about

I'm not sure I understand what I have done that would constitute "pissing on the climbing folks".
Dow Williams wrote:Since you feel I complain too much, I will try to not post again in site feedback for another couple of years. Sorry to bother you.

I never said you complain too much. It's just that both of the things you wrote in your original post have been covered numerous times in mutliple other threads in the Site Feedback forum. I apologize for offending you with my response.

Both of your posts in this thread seem a bit condescending and unnecessarily abrasive, Dow. I don't recall doing anything that would warrant being treated in that way and I don't see the need for it. I understand that the slowness of the site is frustrating and that people probably want someone to blame and I'm the obvious target. But that doesn't mean that it's OK to talk to me or anyone else on the staff here in such a way. I'm doing what I can, when I can, to work on SP to make it better. I'm sorry that I'm disappointing some people, but I'll keep trying to improve SP and listening to feedback from people to help me do so.
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby lcarreau » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:18 pm

Montana Matt wrote:The miscellaneous add-ons that have been added recently were things that people requested that didn't take a lot of time to implement, which is a key factor in determining what I work on since I have a full time job and a hobby business that require the majority of my time.


Respectfully speaking, HOW MANY people actually "requested" the chatting feature ???

Was it a very small minority of the beta-seeking hikers/climbers who actually make up this Site ???

:?:
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby MoapaPk » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:24 pm

Dow--

A LOT of sites have slowed down in the last year. It's partly a matter of finding inexpensive hosting services, and the way those services save money. They spread content among available servers in the cloud, and attempt to use multiplexing, to give the illusion of greater bandwidth. You end up competing with some guy making skype calls, downloading movies, and so on. The forums are just a drop in the bit bucket; people can't type fast enough to keep up with the modicum of throughput needed to maintain the forums.

On the other hand, constant connections to always-on services (like draggable google maps) may make a difference... and I'm sure Matt has and is exploiting tools to figure out what's happening.

And he's doing it for free.
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby Montana Matt » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:30 pm

lcarreau wrote:Respectfully speaking, HOW MANY people actually "requested" the chatting feature ???

Sorry lcarreau, but I can't really answer that or give an answer for that question to any of the recently added features. I don't keep tally of the number of people putting in a request for a particular add-on, new feature, bug, etc. I just make a note of requests and add them to my list of things to do.
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby Dow Williams » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:33 pm

I am not on SP to make friends Matt, it does not represent a social network for me personally, so when I have a legitimate gripe, I get right to the point as I would in any business meeting I have ever been involved in. Whether anyone approves or not, this straight forward, no bs approach has served me well through the years. My level of abrasiveness with you would be shared with anyone who has the responsibility you have, whether you really want same (responsibility) or not, obviously I cannot answer for you.

The bottom line is at the present moment you are responsible. I have sat by and observed many of the other members beg you for fixes regarding the slowness of this site. Then I observe you making adjustments to the site without fixing a serious imperative issue. In my opinion, you are not prioritizing correctly. One does not do things first just because they take less time. Rather you fix things that are costing the site to lose members and users, both equally important resources for the site and both far outweigh the 20+/- members in pnp who have supposedly asked for bells and whistles like chat and games.

Based on what I have sat back and observed, I have no idea how to handle you in the delicate fashion you desire. I am making a black and white business request of you. Are you going to fix it? are your responsible for fixing it? are you capable of fixing it? would you rather contributors like myself move on versus hold you accountable that it be fixed? These are not offensive questions for my generation, however, I realize that many who are younger need more buffering in today's world. This is not an attack Matt. My time has certain value and either SP warrants it or it does not. There are plenty of folks to pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you are doing, but at the current performance of this site, that would be disingenuous bs, and I believe you know better.
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby Dow Williams » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:43 pm

MoapaPk wrote:Dow--

A LOT of sites have slowed down in the last year. It's partly a matter of finding inexpensive hosting services, and the way those services save money. They spread content among available servers in the cloud, and attempt to use multiplexing, to give the illusion of greater bandwidth. You end up competing with some guy making skype calls, downloading movies, and so on. The forums are just a drop in the bit bucket; people can't type fast enough to keep up with the modicum of throughput needed to maintain the forums.

On the other hand, constant connections to always-on services (like draggable google maps) may make a difference... and I'm sure Matt has and is exploiting tools to figure out what's happening.

And he's doing it for free.


Thanks for your input. Matt should not be doing this for free. I would sure like to think his personal and/or business time would be more valuable to him than that. But if that is the total investment being put into the site, Matt working for free, by himself, then anyone in this biz who wants or needs a job, might want to get in contact with me. Because there are those of us who would pay to have it done right.
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby mrchad9 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:46 pm

MoapaPk wrote:Dow--

A LOT of sites have slowed down in the last year. It's partly a matter of finding inexpensive hosting services, and the way those services save money. They spread content among available servers in the cloud, and attempt to use multiplexing, to give the illusion of greater bandwidth. You end up competing with some guy making skype calls, downloading movies, and so on. The forums are just a drop in the bit bucket; people can't type fast enough to keep up with the modicum of throughput needed to maintain the forums.

On the other hand, constant connections to always-on services (like draggable google maps) may make a difference... and I'm sure Matt has and is exploiting tools to figure out what's happening.

And he's doing it for free.

That is bull. You think the WHOLE INTERNET has slowed down?

I've used lots of sites over the previous year, and SP over the previous several years. This is the only site that has slowed down a noticible amount, and at times it is quite significant. Sometimes even a simple task like voting on someone's mountain page can take a few seconds to register. That is NOT normal for a website, and something is going on here that is unique to this site.

(btw, isn't Matt a part owner? That would imply it isn't exactly 'for free', if the answer is yes. But I am not sure, so that is an actual question.)
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby Montana Matt » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:17 pm

Dow Williams wrote:when I have a legitimate gripe, I get right to the point as I would in any business meeting I have ever been involved in.

I too like to get right to the point. But I've found that there are ways to get your point across without being offensive, condescending or abrasive.
Dow Williams wrote:Whether anyone approves or not, this straight forward, no bs approach has served me well through the years.

I'm sure it has, but I wouldn't exactly call your approach in this thread straight forward and without bs.
Dow Williams wrote:Are you going to fix it?

I hope so. I'll keep working on it until the server is better or I die trying.
Dow Williams wrote:are your responsible for fixing it?

No, not really, but I want to.
Dow Williams wrote:are you capable of fixing it?

Yes, given enough time I believe I can fix it. But time is money and I need to spend my time making money paying my bills first and foremost. Whatever I have left after that I'll spend on fixing/improving SP.
Dow Williams wrote:would you rather contributors like myself move on versus hold you accountable that it be fixed?

No, I wouldn't want that. Having contributors move on is the last thing I want.
Dow Williams wrote:These are not offensive questions for my generation

Nor for mine (being born 13 years apart puts us in a different generation? I thought we were both Gen X?). I was not offended by any of those 4 questions and I don't think it's a generational thing here Dow. I think many people would feel the same about how you communicated in this thread if they were on the receiving end of it. It was your text like the following that I didn't understand the necessity of:
Dow Williams wrote:Keep it up Matt, you are doing a terrific job. Since you feel I complain too much, I will try to not post again in site feedback for another couple of years. Sorry to bother you.


Dow Williams wrote:There are plenty of folks to pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you are doing, but at the current performance of this site, that would be disingenuous bs, and I believe you know better.

I'm not doing this looking for a pat on the back. But I'm also not doing this to be talked to as if I'm a peon.


mrchad9 wrote:(btw, isn't Matt a part owner? That would imply it isn't exactly 'for free', if the answer is yes. But I am not sure, so that is an actual question.)

Yes, I'm a small minority owner of SP.
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Re: Disappointed to say the least....

Postby lcarreau » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:34 pm

If "20 or so" people who used to post in PnP wanted to have a chat feature installed and implemented, would that wish be granted if it took little to no time to have it done ???

What is the current membership of SP? Isn't it close to 52,000 people now :?:

So, wouldn't 20 folks out of 52,000 folks be considered a "minority ???"
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Not Disappointed at All!

Postby isostatic » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:49 pm

We are many on SummitPost who are very thankful to Matt for all the work he has done to the site, and particularly for the recent changeover to phpBB3, which has been a great improvement of the site. We appreciate the time he spends on the site, and we are certain that he in due time will find what is sometimes making the site slow.

Many thanks, Matt!
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