dmiki wrote:Ah OK, the repost of her Mont Blanc photo?

Right you are.

Some recent pictures of the Rychlebskie mountains

yatsek wrote:

borutb wrote:

yatsek wrote: Actually, IMO the very bottom grades of the UIAA scale (0 to I) aren't very helpful at all.

Do you know if and/or how they are defined (by UIAA)?

Not really, I've just seen, in some route descriptions, things like UIAA 0+/I. I've always had the feeling this may refer to exposure rather than "difficulty", so maybe the US definition for a class 4 scramble really does describe them best.

I've just decided to rely on the British system - as far as scrambling is concerned

kamil wrote:Don't remember those theoretical details... I just know when I've got to actively use hands (not just for balance or supporting myself) then it's at least grade I. When it gets a bit harder it's II.
On III I may feel like roping up or not, depending on the place, the route and how I feel that day
And all that precisely fits the definitions of YDS class 3, 4 and low 5 that were quoted above.

Another interesting opinion - by mvs

Borut,
I've just come to think UIAA grade IV equates to YDS 5.55 – nice figures, isn't it?

kamil wrote:One remark - from those many descriptions at SP that I've read I think YDS class 3 is about UIAA I, class 4 is roughly II and 5.0-5.4 is like III.

I know the scrambling route to Gierlach is I UIAA. I found the hardest place of scrambling to Maja Jezerce in Prokletije from south-west of similar technical difficulty and then found an American report grading it as class 3. So I can imagine that scrambling more difficult than this would be class 4, where those not used to it would prefer to rope up, which is exactly the definition of II UIAA for me. III or 5.x is where even most climbers would rather rope up.

Been studying the problem The way I see it now is
UIAA I = Scrambling (both US and UK ) grade/class 3.5 (i.e. upper 3 or lower 4) = around YDS climbing grade 5.05
UIAA II = upper class 4 (scrambling) = YDS 5.2 (trad climbing)
UIAA III = YDS 5.35
UIAA IV = YDS 5.55
UIAA V = YDS 5.75

The Cold Valleys of the Tatras.

Second link turned into a TR
http://www.summitpost.org/trip-report/6 ... nosze.html

yatsek wrote:I am pretty sure UIAA IV = YDS 5.5/5.6
So, UIAA III must be about YDS 5.3/5.4
Then UIAA II = YDS 5.2/5.3
And UIAA I = YDS class 4 to 5.1

class 4 = approx. UIAA 0+

Hi guys, thanks for the invite, though I just stumbled on the thread.

I think UIAA II is roughly class 4. It's really hard to tell the difference between class 4 and ratings up to about 5.3. You'll never see an argument where people are finding much difference between 5.1 and 5.4. But at 5.6 things firm up. That's usually the first grade people got on where they thought they just might really fall and die if they aren't careful.

I guess my views align with the chart I posted here a few years ago.

This thing about class 4 being UIAA 0+ is ridiculous. I'm suddenly picturing some scared European hiker on the West Ridge of Forbidden Peak (sometimes underrated as class 4) who read that climber.org site!

mvs wrote:

yatsek wrote:I am pretty sure UIAA IV = YDS 5.5/5.6
So, UIAA III must be about YDS 5.3/5.4
Then UIAA II = YDS 5.2/5.3
And UIAA I = YDS class 4 to 5.1

class 4 = approx. UIAA 0+

Hi guys, thanks for the invite, though I just stumbled on the thread.

I think UIAA II is roughly class 4. It's really hard to tell the difference between class 4 and ratings up to about 5.3. You'll never see an argument where people are finding much difference between 5.1 and 5.4. But at 5.6 things firm up. That's usually the first grade people got on where they thought they just might really fall and die if they aren't careful.

I guess my views align with the chart I posted here a few years ago.

This thing about class 4 being UIAA 0+ is ridiculous. I'm suddenly picturing some scared European hiker on the West Ridge of Forbidden Peak (sometimes underrated as class 4) who read that climber.org site!

Hi,

Really nice to see you here.

How about my latest post about that? (just above the two big pix above)

yatsek wrote:Been studying the problem The way I see it now is
UIAA I = Scrambling (both US and UK ) grade/class 3.5 (i.e. upper 3 or lower 4) = around YDS climbing grade 5.05
UIAA II = upper class 4 (scrambling) = YDS 5.2 (trad climbing)
UIAA III = YDS 5.35
UIAA IV = YDS 5.55
UIAA V = YDS 5.75

yatsek"
...
Hi,

Really nice to see you here.

How about my latest post about that? (just above the two big pix one page back)
[quote="yatsek wrote:Been studying the problem The way I see it now is
UIAA I = Scrambling (both US and UK ) grade/class 3.5 (i.e. upper 3 or lower 4) = around YDS climbing grade 5.05
UIAA II = upper class 4 (scrambling) = YDS 5.2 (trad climbing)
UIAA III = YDS 5.35
UIAA IV = YDS 5.55
UIAA V = YDS 5.75

[/quote]

Hee hee! Well now that we are in the realm of fun I'll propose this: no Euro-trash climb can ever be as hard as a solid 'Merican 5.8. Now 5.8 is where things get interesting. The muscles become burly and the commitment becomes grim. The walls are smooth and the cracks are greasy. So this must be the definitive scale:

Code: Select all

limit       ConvertUIAAToYDS(x) = 5.8
x->inf


With that in mind, UIAA VIII is probably around 5.789132..., UIAA X+ is approaching 5.79634323..., etc. Makes perfect sense!

mvs wrote:Hee hee! Well now that we are in the realm of fun I'll propose this: no Euro-trash climb can ever be as hard as a solid 'Merican 5.8. Now 5.8 is where things get interesting. The muscles become burly and the commitment becomes grim. The walls are smooth and the cracks are greasy. So this must be the definitive scale:

Code: Select all

limit       ConvertUIAAToYDS(x) = 5.8
x->inf


With that in mind, UIAA VIII is probably around 5.789132..., UIAA X+ is approaching 5.79634323..., etc. Makes perfect sense!

Now it's Kamil's or Borut's turn to defend the honour of this peninsula of Asia as such heights are yours and his playground. I've never crossed that 5.75 gate to heaven.

mvs wrote:It's really hard to tell the difference between class 4 and ratings up to about 5.3. You'll never see an argument where people are finding much difference between 5.1 and 5.4.

Exactly. When it comes to scrambling, I get the feeling that the real problem is how "chossy" the rock is, and this seems to be – surprisingly – ignored by the scrambling grading systems. You've been there and here. I wonder what you'd say.

yatsek wrote:

mvs wrote:It's really hard to tell the difference between class 4 and ratings up to about 5.3. You'll never see an argument where people are finding much difference between 5.1 and 5.4.

Exactly. When it comes to scrambling, I get the feeling that the real problem is how "chossy" the rock is, and this seems to be – surprisingly – ignored by the scrambling grading systems. You've been there and here. I wonder what you'd say.

The rating systems definitely do ignore the rock quality. If it's bad, the author of the description or topo usually feels compelled to state something.

It's a particularly hilarious aspect of our sport that beginners who are looking for the easiest technical climbs are shunted onto the loosest and arguably most dangerous terrain on the mountain. Before they even began they have to get comfortable with long run-outs on asthetically unpleasant terrain. Those that survive with enthusiasm intact will finally get to do some real climbing later on steeper (read cleaner) rock.

Thanks for dropping by, Michael!

mvs wrote:

Code: Select all

limit       ConvertUIAAToYDS(x) = 5.8
x->inf


With that in mind, UIAA VIII is probably around 5.789132..., UIAA X+ is approaching 5.79634323..., etc. Makes perfect sense!

Luckily I still remember a bit from my technical education
Your joke sometimes happens in reality. Back in the time there was really something like this with VI UIAA which was traditionally the hardest stuff. And not so long ago it was the same in Poland (late 80's and early 90's) with our own Polish grade VI.5 (about IX+ UIAA), with much harder routes still being graded the sacred VI.5