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Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Dow Williams » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:08 pm

Rick, please tell me you are not truly surprised though?..come on man...standard protocol in this country now...pathetic, yes...reality, yes..every time I press for tort reform in these forums, the lawyers cry a swan song...

NZ, AUS and even Canada...the suit would never even get filed
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Scott » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:14 pm

In Wyoming in January 2010, a skier at Grand Targhee ventured out of bounds at the resort, got lost, sent out a cellphone distress call, but died of hypothermia. Despite a heroic effort by the Teton County Search and Rescue team, his heirs sued the team for $5 million.

Now that is ********.


Those kind of people (the ones trying to sue) should be thrown in prison.
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Kahuna » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:32 pm

Surprised? Nope.

Just pointing out the state of our priorities here in America and confirming Dave's opinion/article.
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Scott » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:49 pm

Surprised? Nope.

Just pointing out the state of our priorities here in America and confirming Dave's opinion/article.


Not surprised and strongly agree with you 100%. It seems that few take responsibility now days.

Fat people blame McDonalds or complain about others costing them money when they are costing everyone else.

Parents blame their teachers for their kids bad grades.

In debt people blame the government for them being in debt and living beyond their means.

Irresponsible hikers/climbers push their SPOT (or whatever) when the water taste salty.

Republicans blame the Democrats for everything and vice versa.

Worst of all, lawyers (and the ones who hire them for frivolous lawsuits) will blame anyone that they are paid to blame. The lawsuit against SAR was one of the most incredibly stupid acts possible.

The list could go on and on. It seems that few take responsibility now days and I agree with David Robert's article 100% (climbers should definately take responsibility). The editorial I posted was actually speaking of something else; about how all climbers aren't stupid adrenaline addicts trying to get killed and there are positive aspects to the activity as well.
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Kahuna » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:00 pm

You all would shet your britches at the lawsuits I saw go down when I worked up a MMSA. I was personally involved in one when a Meth Freaked out snowboarder blew the fence and slammed into me on my snowmobile, in a restricted 6' fenced off designated race course zone.

Unfking believable...
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Scott » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:18 pm

You all would shet your britches at the lawsuits I saw go down when I worked up a MMSA.


I used to work for the DOT so got to see some aweful ones too. One lady in our county sued the DOT when she hit the guardrail with her car while drunk.

She won too, because the lawer went through every single DOT document to find one mistake. Turns out the inspector of the guardrail (who worked there before I did) missed writing down one of the heat numbers on the gaurdrail (which missing one number out of thousands on various materials is easy to do). With that one tiny mistake, it was successfully argued that there is no way that the state could prove the guardrail was sufficient. Of course after that everyone had to check al paperwork with a fine tooth comb.

As far as I'm concerned the state should have sued her for damaging the guardrail while drunk. It was 100% her fault.

Another incident:

In 1993 a boy scout troop went into Kolob Creek in/near Zion National Park.

One of the leaders asked Dale G, one of my dad’s friends for information on the route. Dale told him that conditions were not ideal and not to take scouts in there. The leader was defensive and said that he asked for information on the route, not whether or not he should take the scouts in there.

Two leaders were killed on the trip. Story on the incident:

http://www.people.com/people/archive/ar ... 93,00.html

They ended up winning several million dollars in a lawsuit. Despite any claims to the contrary, they were warned that conditions were bad.

Now the rest of us have a hard time going there (even when conditions are good) because it’s hard to get a permit.
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby lcarreau » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:53 pm

A5RP wrote:
Just pointing out the state of our priorities here in America ...


Don't know how many of you remember the "Osmond Brothers" in their heyday, but one of their songs makes a HELL of- a-lotta sense nowadays ..



Of course, I was ALWAYS a huge fan of Marie. She really puts Lady Gaga and today's "artists" to the TEST ... for cryin' out loud! !

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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Dow Williams » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:55 pm

I have shared all this with you before, not bc related, but I was sued for 3 mil for bumping a lady with a bag on an airplane...fell out of my hand moving stuff around in the overhead....3 mil and it went to jury in Reno..one whole week!!!! I guess this stuff always gets settled, but she declined to take 100K my homeowners policy offered her...she got zero (she really was not hurt; just psychological babble) in the end and the jury actually found for the defendant (me), no money because I did not ask for any. That was Reno...put that same case in Calif....I am toast. I can see Rick running over someone with a sled though, poor bastard.
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby lcarreau » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:25 pm

On the other hand .... THIS song would be a much "fairer" representation on what's going down today ..

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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby lcarreau » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:13 pm

Fact ..... my friend lost a $200.00 cell phone looking for mushrooms ....

I think a bear found her cell phone ...

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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Kiefer » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:46 pm

MoapaPk wrote:Do you guys ever take cell phones with you? I don't.


Absolutely, unequivocally, positively, HELL NO. :!:
Never carry a cell phone. Don't own a SPOT (I'm with ya on that, Scott) nor do I have a GPS. No plans on buying one either.
Only piece of electric gadetry I carry is my camera.

If I can't rescue myself, read the terrain or stretch my mental acumen in getting out of a sticky situation or route-find
back to known territory (safety), then I have NO BUSINESS being in the backcountry. I set personal expectations somewhat high.

I've noticed I've been venturing off trail more & more in the last few years, taking non-standard route to mountains/peaks and
I've been getting into 'quad-pointing' more lately. THAT will work your abilities to read the topo and features (no trails, straight X-country).

I definitely see the usefullness and practacality for GPS or SPOT's because they do work and have saved lives. I won'r argue that.
But for me personally, I have no use for them. There's nothing pressing back here in the city that I would cry over if I ever went missing.

Dow,
Holy shit! Are you serious? Who in the hell, what type of low-brow, bitter person does something like that? My faith in people would be so
demoralized, damaged after having to endure something like that.
Pathetic folks like that woman should be forced to spend time in Mexico (rural- NO RESORTS), Brazil or India.
America needs a 'consciousness-awakening'. That kind of behaviour is disgusting and unacceptable.
Sorry to hear that had to happen, Dow. :(
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby Catamount » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:51 pm

Happy to say that I have never been on either side of a lawsuit although in 21 years as a cop, I was threatened with it more times than I can count. It got to the point where I developed a standard response: "Just make sure you spell my name right in the court paperwork." If I was in the right mood, I'd even offer to write my name down for them.

On the flip side, I once ran into the back end of a tractor-trailer whose driver decided the driving lane made a nice parking area. Effed myself up pretty good and considered suing. I probably would have won but I ultimately decided that shi* happens and left it alone.

Overall though, I completely agree that far too many casual outdoors folks feel entitled to instant rescue. Of course, there are just as many who seem to "get it" and seek out the mountains as a way to completely unplug from society.
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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby lcarreau » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:41 pm

Kiefer Thomas wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:Do you guys ever take cell phones with you? I don't.


Absolutely, unequivocally, positively, HELL NO. :!:
Never carry a cell phone.(


Hey Kiefer, ONLY the "in-crowd" carries cell phones!

I just use mine to CHECK the time ...... :wink:

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Re: Editorial on Climbing/Hiking

Postby TimB » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:54 pm

lcarreau wrote:
Kiefer Thomas wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:Do you guys ever take cell phones with you? I don't.


Absolutely, unequivocally, positively, HELL NO. :!:
Never carry a cell phone.(


Hey Kiefer, ONLY the "in-crowd" carries cell phones!

I just use mine to CHECK the time ...... :wink:

Image



Sounds about like me, Larry.
8)
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