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Elitism

Minimally moderated forum for climbing related hearsay, misinformation, and lies.
 

Postby simonov » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:46 pm

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Postby ShortTimer » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:27 pm

I is 3lit3 and proud of it! Now go on and git outa my way.
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Postby Diggler » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:10 pm

I just don't understand why Caylor, Honnold, or Segal haven't weighed in on this thread yet!
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Postby Alpinisto » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:19 am

Diggler wrote:I just don't understand why Caylor, Honnold, or Segal haven't weighed in on this thread yet!


Steven...?
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Postby Diggler » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:38 pm

Alpinisto wrote:
Diggler wrote:I just don't understand why Caylor, Honnold, or Segal haven't weighed in on this thread yet!


Steven...?


:lol: Matt. http://www.climbing.com/exclusive/above ... y_11_2008/
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Postby Buz Groshong » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:05 pm

I'd post something on this topic, but I am just way above it!
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New climbers and Elitsim

Postby Roy1 » Thu May 13, 2010 5:39 pm

I am a new climber. Climbing for two years now. Took a two day outdoor intro top rope course and 6 months later a 3 month indoor course. I am OUTDOOR top roping at 5.7/5.8 and as for leading, this June I will be taking an outdoor lead course with anchor building, multi-pitch belay station management, and some minimal trad inro. I read all the books, practice anchor building on my garage wall, and have even gone to the museum to learn a little of the geology of what I'm climbing on. I am basically putting myself through "Climbing University".

The purpose behind my Curriculum Victa is to try and show I am not a wannabe who simply wants to show off my gear to my non-climbing buddies while drinking beer at a barbecue, and have pictures at my office of me on top of Mt. Denali when really guides got me up there (by flying halfway up first, LOL).

I love this new part of my life. I have unfortunely had some ackward and sometimes discouraging experiences with climber's elitism. Why are so many climbing communities so tight? God forbid their sport becomes mainstream and they are no longer considered unique for doing something not everyone can do. If I were already a seasoned climber, I would be proud and take it as a compliment that so many want to do what I do.

Before climbing I did natural bodybuilding. When a new person was in the gym, trying to compete, train and was obvisouly new, I enjoyed getting to know them, helping them if they asked, and becoming friends with them. Elitist climbers have NO IDEA how many genuine new climbers turn away because from their point of view all climbers are d@ckholes.

Many think elitism is a natural way of filtering out the wannabes. What I think is more natural would be to TALK to them. Get to know them, suggest courses, offer to sell them your used yet safe gear, invite them on a day trip or two. And remember, if you actually had the balls the step out of your pigeon hole you'd find that other people are really good at what ever it is THEY do, and YOUR NOT.

B. Roy
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Postby The Chief » Thu May 13, 2010 6:01 pm

Welcome Roy!

All I can say to your inquiring post is that all this "Elitism", regardless of discipline, is all based on one individual perception of another person.

Many thought that JB was an asshole and a staunch elitist. But, if they took the time and they really got to know him, they found that their misperceptions were totally dumbfounded.

That is my take on all this elitism crap.
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Re: New climbers and Elitsim

Postby Ed F » Thu May 13, 2010 6:32 pm

Roy1 wrote:I am a new climber. Climbing for two years now. Took a two day outdoor intro top rope course and 6 months later a 3 month indoor course. I am OUTDOOR top roping at 5.7/5.8 and as for leading, this June I will be taking an outdoor lead course with anchor building, multi-pitch belay station management, and some minimal trad inro. I read all the books, practice anchor building on my garage wall, and have even gone to the museum to learn a little of the geology of what I'm climbing on. I am basically putting myself through "Climbing University".

The purpose behind my Curriculum Victa is to try and show I am not a wannabe who simply wants to show off my gear to my non-climbing buddies while drinking beer at a barbecue, and have pictures at my office of me on top of Mt. Denali when really guides got me up there (by flying halfway up first, LOL).

I love this new part of my life. I have unfortunely had some ackward and sometimes discouraging experiences with climber's elitism. Why are so many climbing communities so tight? God forbid their sport becomes mainstream and they are no longer considered unique for doing something not everyone can do. If I were already a seasoned climber, I would be proud and take it as a compliment that so many want to do what I do.

Before climbing I did natural bodybuilding. When a new person was in the gym, trying to compete, train and was obvisouly new, I enjoyed getting to know them, helping them if they asked, and becoming friends with them. Elitist climbers have NO IDEA how many genuine new climbers turn away because from their point of view all climbers are d@ckholes.

Many think elitism is a natural way of filtering out the wannabes. What I think is more natural would be to TALK to them. Get to know them, suggest courses, offer to sell them your used yet safe gear, invite them on a day trip or two. And remember, if you actually had the balls the step out of your pigeon hole you'd find that other people are really good at what ever it is THEY do, and YOUR NOT.

B. Roy


Don't sweat them, man. You'll find that the kind of climbers that you're describing are (1) never usually any good (2) extremely insecure and (3) more often than not on the internet. They're the ones that claim that they don't care about climbing fashion, but can spot the make and manufacture of nearly any piece of clothing at 100 yards. They're the ones at the crag who spray all day long but never tie in. They're the ones with four sets of skis in the garage who spray on TGR for 10 hours a day, but only tour twice a year when it's green-light.

Without exception, the truly hardcore alpinists I've met are the most down-to-earth, supportive, and nice group of folks you'll ever find. It's the weekend warriors and moderately-skilled who have the insecurity complexes. Don't worry about them. You'll be climbing harder and more often than they do shortly, if you don't already. Don't be dazzled by the jerkoff at the busy, roadside crag who can pull a sport 5.11 for 30 feet and criticizes everyone else all day. The real climbers don't give a shit about him, why should you?
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Postby adventurer » Thu May 13, 2010 6:35 pm

I can understand the points made by Roy. I think elitism in climbing, as in any other challenging endeavor, is nearly always the result of either a "I'm a legend in my own mind" attitude or a form of insecurity. The insecurity part comes when the so called elitist feels threatened by the possibilty that "lesser people" may become as good or better than him. This type of elitist usually reacts by attempting to minimize the accomplishment of the newbie by finding fault with his methods, style, etc.
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Re: New climbers and Elitsim

Postby Lolli » Thu May 13, 2010 7:12 pm

Ed F wrote:Without exception, the truly hardcore alpinists I've met are the most down-to-earth, supportive, and nice group of folks you'll ever find.


+1
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Postby Day Hiker » Thu May 13, 2010 8:10 pm

Don't be too concerned with the voice of the elitist. I recently read that elite climbers shun basic healthy leg exercise out of fear that it might (gasp) create a bit of muscle mass. They would sacrifice lower body strength and overall body proportion and health for the sake of something as practically useless as 5.14 sport climbing. Pfffft.

5.14 sport climber preferred supplement:

Image
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Postby dskoon » Thu May 13, 2010 9:34 pm

adventurer wrote:I can understand the points made by Roy. I think elitism in climbing, as in any other challenging endeavor, is nearly always the result of either a "I'm a legend in my own mind" attitude or a form of insecurity. The insecurity part comes when the so called elitist feels threatened by the possibilty that "lesser people" may become as good or better than him. This type of elitist usually reacts by attempting to minimize the accomplishment of the newbie by finding fault with his methods, style, etc.


Seems some of this would fit Mark Twight to a T!
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Postby woodsxc » Thu May 13, 2010 11:15 pm

Day Hiker wrote:5.14 sport climber preferred supplement:

Image


Nice!! :D :D
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Postby CClaude » Fri May 14, 2010 5:38 pm

[quote="Day Hiker"]Don't be too concerned with the voice of the elitist. I recently read that elite climbers shun basic healthy leg exercise out of fear that it might (gasp) create a bit of muscle mass. They would sacrifice lower body strength and overall body proportion and health for the sake of something as practically useless as 5.14 sport climbing. Pfffft.

5.14 sport climber preferred supplement:....
[quote]

I hate to say this but isn't this a form of elitist attitude :? My attitude is be honest and be honest. If someone wants to be a sports climber and they are not affecting the access situation for those around us, let them have their fun.

I has hit with the charge of "Elitist" recently, Fatdad knows the thread in Mountainproject... but my attitude is just be honest about what you are saying. A rating only means a relative degree of difficulty as opposed to the numbers higher and lower, and its still relative. It doesn't denote anything of quality, (ie: is the individual who is doing it any better or worse then anyone else as an individual or is the route of better quality then a route of another rating. ) This is why I do NOT like to use words like Hard, Easy or Moderate to describe routes, since the words denote quality. They denote something that is variable to the individual who is doing it.

And as I've always said, climbing is basically a useless thing except for how it changes oneself and our views of that which is around us.
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