so why was blakeman deleted? was it the Chief again?

I is 3lit3 and proud of it! Now go on and git outa my way.

I just don't understand why Caylor, Honnold, or Segal haven't weighed in on this thread yet!

Diggler wrote:I just don't understand why Caylor, Honnold, or Segal haven't weighed in on this thread yet!

Steven...?

Alpinisto wrote:

Diggler wrote:I just don't understand why Caylor, Honnold, or Segal haven't weighed in on this thread yet!

Steven...?

Matt. http://www.climbing.com/exclusive/above ... y_11_2008/

I'd post something on this topic, but I am just way above it!

I am a new climber. Climbing for two years now. Took a two day outdoor intro top rope course and 6 months later a 3 month indoor course. I am OUTDOOR top roping at 5.7/5.8 and as for leading, this June I will be taking an outdoor lead course with anchor building, multi-pitch belay station management, and some minimal trad inro. I read all the books, practice anchor building on my garage wall, and have even gone to the museum to learn a little of the geology of what I'm climbing on. I am basically putting myself through "Climbing University".

The purpose behind my Curriculum Victa is to try and show I am not a wannabe who simply wants to show off my gear to my non-climbing buddies while drinking beer at a barbecue, and have pictures at my office of me on top of Mt. Denali when really guides got me up there (by flying halfway up first, LOL).

I love this new part of my life. I have unfortunely had some ackward and sometimes discouraging experiences with climber's elitism. Why are so many climbing communities so tight? God forbid their sport becomes mainstream and they are no longer considered unique for doing something not everyone can do. If I were already a seasoned climber, I would be proud and take it as a compliment that so many want to do what I do.

Before climbing I did natural bodybuilding. When a new person was in the gym, trying to compete, train and was obvisouly new, I enjoyed getting to know them, helping them if they asked, and becoming friends with them. Elitist climbers have NO IDEA how many genuine new climbers turn away because from their point of view all climbers are d@ckholes.

Many think elitism is a natural way of filtering out the wannabes. What I think is more natural would be to TALK to them. Get to know them, suggest courses, offer to sell them your used yet safe gear, invite them on a day trip or two. And remember, if you actually had the balls the step out of your pigeon hole you'd find that other people are really good at what ever it is THEY do, and YOUR NOT.

B. Roy

Welcome Roy!

All I can say to your inquiring post is that all this "Elitism", regardless of discipline, is all based on one individual perception of another person.

Many thought that JB was an asshole and a staunch elitist. But, if they took the time and they really got to know him, they found that their misperceptions were totally dumbfounded.

That is my take on all this elitism crap.

Roy1 wrote:I am a new climber. Climbing for two years now. Took a two day outdoor intro top rope course and 6 months later a 3 month indoor course. I am OUTDOOR top roping at 5.7/5.8 and as for leading, this June I will be taking an outdoor lead course with anchor building, multi-pitch belay station management, and some minimal trad inro. I read all the books, practice anchor building on my garage wall, and have even gone to the museum to learn a little of the geology of what I'm climbing on. I am basically putting myself through "Climbing University".

The purpose behind my Curriculum Victa is to try and show I am not a wannabe who simply wants to show off my gear to my non-climbing buddies while drinking beer at a barbecue, and have pictures at my office of me on top of Mt. Denali when really guides got me up there (by flying halfway up first, LOL).

I love this new part of my life. I have unfortunely had some ackward and sometimes discouraging experiences with climber's elitism. Why are so many climbing communities so tight? God forbid their sport becomes mainstream and they are no longer considered unique for doing something not everyone can do. If I were already a seasoned climber, I would be proud and take it as a compliment that so many want to do what I do.

Before climbing I did natural bodybuilding. When a new person was in the gym, trying to compete, train and was obvisouly new, I enjoyed getting to know them, helping them if they asked, and becoming friends with them. Elitist climbers have NO IDEA how many genuine new climbers turn away because from their point of view all climbers are d@ckholes.

Many think elitism is a natural way of filtering out the wannabes. What I think is more natural would be to TALK to them. Get to know them, suggest courses, offer to sell them your used yet safe gear, invite them on a day trip or two. And remember, if you actually had the balls the step out of your pigeon hole you'd find that other people are really good at what ever it is THEY do, and YOUR NOT.

B. Roy

Don't sweat them, man. You'll find that the kind of climbers that you're describing are (1) never usually any good (2) extremely insecure and (3) more often than not on the internet. They're the ones that claim that they don't care about climbing fashion, but can spot the make and manufacture of nearly any piece of clothing at 100 yards. They're the ones at the crag who spray all day long but never tie in. They're the ones with four sets of skis in the garage who spray on TGR for 10 hours a day, but only tour twice a year when it's green-light.

Without exception, the truly hardcore alpinists I've met are the most down-to-earth, supportive, and nice group of folks you'll ever find. It's the weekend warriors and moderately-skilled who have the insecurity complexes. Don't worry about them. You'll be climbing harder and more often than they do shortly, if you don't already. Don't be dazzled by the jerkoff at the busy, roadside crag who can pull a sport 5.11 for 30 feet and criticizes everyone else all day. The real climbers don't give a shit about him, why should you?

I can understand the points made by Roy. I think elitism in climbing, as in any other challenging endeavor, is nearly always the result of either a "I'm a legend in my own mind" attitude or a form of insecurity. The insecurity part comes when the so called elitist feels threatened by the possibilty that "lesser people" may become as good or better than him. This type of elitist usually reacts by attempting to minimize the accomplishment of the newbie by finding fault with his methods, style, etc.

Ed F wrote:Without exception, the truly hardcore alpinists I've met are the most down-to-earth, supportive, and nice group of folks you'll ever find.

+1

Don't be too concerned with the voice of the elitist. I recently read that elite climbers shun basic healthy leg exercise out of fear that it might (gasp) create a bit of muscle mass. They would sacrifice lower body strength and overall body proportion and health for the sake of something as practically useless as 5.14 sport climbing. Pfffft.

5.14 sport climber preferred supplement:

Day Hiker wrote:

adventurer wrote:I can understand the points made by Roy. I think elitism in climbing, as in any other challenging endeavor, is nearly always the result of either a "I'm a legend in my own mind" attitude or a form of insecurity. The insecurity part comes when the so called elitist feels threatened by the possibilty that "lesser people" may become as good or better than him. This type of elitist usually reacts by attempting to minimize the accomplishment of the newbie by finding fault with his methods, style, etc.

Seems some of this would fit Mark Twight to a T!