dskoon wrote:It's all a matter of perspective, Chief.
Yep, that's all Joshua Tree is, a great big asphalt parking lot. . . a total waste.

Compared to what it was back in the late 60's and early 70's, it sure damn is. So is Arches and Zion.

Lines to get through the Fee stations and even lines to take a piss in the BR's.

Hell, ya even got LEO's crawling all over telling ya what you can and can't do, where to park, shet, ya can't even have yur dog off the pavement etc etc.

The Chief wrote:

dskoon wrote:It's all a matter of perspective, Chief.
Yep, that's all Joshua Tree is, a great big asphalt parking lot. . . a total waste.

Compared to what it was back in the late 60's and early 70's, it sure damn is. So is Arches and Zion.

Lines to get through the Fee stations and even lines to take a piss in the BR's.

Hell, ya even got LEO's crawling all over telling ya what you can and can't do, where to park, shet, ya can't even have yur dog off the pavement etc etc.

Yeah, well, Mammoth isn't the same as it was in the 60's or 70's either. Is anyplace?

dskoon wrote:Yeah, well, Mammoth isn't the same as it was in the 60's or 70's either. Is anyplace?

That is why I don't live in Mammoth rather in Hilton Creek.

Glacier Lodge, South Lake, North Lake, Sabrina, Pine Creek, Rock Creek, McGee Creek, Convict Canyon etc are all pretty much the same as they have been since the 40's, if not longer.

Gary Schenk wrote:

dskoon wrote:Yep, that's all Joshua Tree is, a great big asphalt parking lot. . . a total waste.

Roger that. It always amazes me up when people complain about how crowded Josh is. I hardly ever see a soul there. Walk for 10 minutes into the Wonderland and you've got solitude and nice climbs.

Or head out into the Coxcombs and you might as well be on the Moon.

Then why do you waste your time driving to and climbing at Christmas Tree Pass which is located in another NPS governed area, Gary, if Josh is still so secluded and void of people???

The Lake District is one of my favourites also Berchtesgaden too.

Castlereagh wrote:... I went to Capitol Reef this past March and was absolutely moved by the place. Not the most spectacular, but a favorite in my book.

Aaron Johnson wrote:... Of the ones I've been to, my top three are:

Capitol Reef
It's FREE! It's absolute solitude. It's a Park for walkers. It's gorgeous, and a well kept secret. Not crowded. It's remote. It's AWESOME. I'm blessed to be the maintainer for Capitol Reef here at SP: CAPITOL REEF

Shhh! You guys hush up!

Well, I've been to a few of these parks (LOL), and my favorites have recently shuffled around. Canyonlands is top. It has something for everyone, whether you want to hike, bike, climb, paddle or wheel. Big Bend is number two. Solitude. I have a T-shirt from there that says, "Out here you're nobody. Perfect." That's Big Bend. Number three is Glacier. Stunning beauty, and I was blessed to go there a few days before the Going to the Sun Road opened, so there were no crowds anywhere (and especially on a hike to Grinnell Glacier).

As for the really popular parks: Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosemite, etc: Much, much too crowded for my taste. If Disney opened a national park, it would look just like those do. And, BTW, GC can't hold a candle to Canyonlands for sheer, stunning beauty. Period. In four visits, GC has proven to me to be a big hole with horrible photo opportunities because of the persistent haze. Canyonlands has never disappointed me in five visits. Incredible light, clouds, visibility. A photographer's paradise.

And I ain't saying nothing about Capitol Reef. You guys just hush up.

--mark d.

Man, don't even get me started about Joshua Tree. I can't believe all the asphalt that has gone in in the name of enhancing visitor enjoyment. Really, really sad.

A few "tourons".....Riiiiiiiiiight!

Yup, all to preserve the natural wonders and afford accessibility...


YNP


RMNP

YSNP

GNP



ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC.............

Etc.

Pretty pictures but you can get all the above and so much more, without setting foot into a NP.

My point, as soon as an area is designated a NP, it becomes a people/touron/RV magnet in most cases..... Part of their "tick list".

The Chief wrote:Yep... and building miles of roads, bridges, strores, eateries and hotels etc within the confines of these Parks sure is an appropriate attempt at protecting the natural and historic objects, right?

Now that it is a Park.... it is a great big asphalt parking lot with paved roads and thousands of people throughout and a spewing tons of urbanization. What a waste.

That's not true at all. As with all National Parks, all you have to do is walk ten minutes away from a parking lot and you will find yourself quite alone in a soundless wilderness. The crowds stick to the roads, visitor centers and major attractions.

Having said that, I myself avoid National Parks for the same reason the Chief does. However pristine the wilderness beyond the roads and parking lots, you still have to deal with crowds of people to get to the trailheads. So I prefer our local National Forests. I have been to Yosemite only once in my life, and that was in winter. The last time I was in Giant Forest it was late spring and there were very few people there. In a few weeks I will be back in Giant Forest again, but that will only to start a week-long backcountry hike which I can assure you will be free of crowded asphalt and SUVs.

It's hard to settle on a favorite because all the really beautiful National Parks suffer from the problems Chief mentions. Zion, Bryce, they would normally be high on my list. But 20 years ago a girlfriend and I visited Capitol Reef for a few days, and we seemed to have the whole place to ourselves. It was lovely.

Joshua Tree would probably look like New Jack City if it didn't have the protection of the NPS. Imagine thousands of OHV trails snaking around through the park. I'd rather have the people and the asphalt than another NJC.

jspeigl wrote:Joshua Tree would probably look like New Jack City if it didn't have the protection of the NPS. Imagine thousands of OHV trails snaking around through the park. I'd rather have the people and the asphalt than another NJC.

Yep. Maybe we should ask all the climbers at JT, as well as Yosemite, after they come off a route, as well as all the backpackers returning from a backcountry excursion, in all of our national parks, whether the crowds and asphalt and RVs and t-shirt shops bothered them out there, or en route? Whether they think the national park they happen to be in, sucks because of all that shit they have to put up with?
Think they might be thorougly disgusted by the place?

Ya'll enjoy your Parks... that will be less folks that may even consider to venture into my non-Park areas where I guarantee ya, you will not see any humans nor any of their mechanical devices.

Lassen Volcanic holds a special place in my heart. But Yosemite is tops for me.