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Figuring things out on your own

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Postby zenalpinist » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 am

fossana wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:
zenalpinist wrote:I'd like to do something sometime that might take place somewhere that isn't where I am presently at. I'm not sure what this will be but I hope that someone might have some leads that might produce some information that would be helpful in this endeavor.


Secor says you just follow the obvious weakness to a ledge system.


It goes at class 5.


What sort of rope will I need for that?
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Postby cp0915 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:22 pm

Is it still climbing if I use a guide?
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Re: Figuring things out on your own

Postby WoundedKnee » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:23 pm

MarthaP wrote:There's yet (again) a thread in the Colorado forum asking which is what, where it is, and how can I do it. It's starting to sound like a broken record - same question, same question, same question.

No research, no intelligent queries, just a general laissez-faire and please tell me what I want to know because I'm too FRIKKIN' lazy to figure it out on my own.

What has happened to us? Have we stopped reading? Do folks no longer take pride in learning on their own? It's not as if the information isn't available - anything anyone needs to know about Colorado peaks is pretty much here in SP. So why bother to file trip reports and post valuable information if it's not going to be accessed? What in the heck is Google about? Is it so tough to punch a few keywords into the search box?

I wrote an online column for a couple of years about ski resorts, first in CA, then when I moved to CO about the resorts here. I covered a lot of material, but it was well-organized, brief, and easy to figure out.

My email address was part of the information and I'd get myriad correspondences asking questions. The most asked question? "Where can I get cheap lift tickets to Vail?"

It was pretty clear that all my research and information was a waste of time. It was clear no one read the posts and, out of sheer laziness, wanted a quick answer without doing their own research. So I quit the newsletter out of frustration.

In my mind if people are too lazy or stupid to research and come up with their own conclusions then I sure as HELL don't want to be out and about with them. If they can't figure things out online, what can I expect from them out in the field?

Research FIRST, then ask INTELLIGENT questions.

Off my soapbox now.


To come to the defense of "kids these days," I think your perspective is skewed. You're not going to hear from the ones that "figure it out on their own," only the ones that are - as you put it - too lazy. This probably gives you the idea that "no one read the posts," when in fact I'd bet a sizeable majority figure things out on their own.

BTW, I also find it frustrating that some people post to the forums asking information that's easily accessible with five minutes and a little effort.
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Postby MoapaPk » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:18 pm

Many times people can do the research, know all the routes, but locals (whom we have in spades on SP) know something jarring about local conditions. For example, a forest fire may have recently closed off an area (Signal Peak, UT, summer 2005); we may have a very active avalanche season (Charleston NV, 2005); fires and landslides may have wiped out a trail (Porter and Sentinel CA by the east side); a flash flood may have wiped out the road (Troy Peak NV, 2007); cheat grass seed heads require desert gaiters (lots of desert peaks in 2005).

I've encountered a lot of people who want to snowshoe the North Loop Trail to Charleston in winter. Unless you search the forums here, you could do all the research on Charleston, and still get in a dangerous fix (after all, what could be wrong with a class 1 trail?).
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Postby Andinistaloco » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:21 pm

MoapaPk wrote:Many times people can do the research, know all the routes, but locals (whom we have in spades on SP) know something jarring about local conditions. For example, a forest fire may have recently closed off an area (Signal Peak, UT, summer 2005); we may have a very active avalanche season (Charleston NV, 2005); fires and landslides may have wiped out a trail (Porter and Sentinel CA by the east side); a flash flood may have wiped out the road (Troy Peak NV, 2007); cheat grass seed heads require desert gaiters (lots of desert peaks in 2005).

I've encountered a lot of people who want to snowshoe the North Loop Trail to Charleston in winter. Unless you search the forums here, you could do all the research on Charleston, and still get in a dangerous fix (after all, what could be wrong with a class 1 trail?).


Good point....
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Postby cp0915 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:31 pm

Get my email, Walt(er)?
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Postby MarthaP » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Google search "14ers near Denver":

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=14er+close+to+Denver&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g-c1

I count, on the first page and a half, reliable information from 14ers.com, 14ers.org, localhikes.com, alanarnette.com, the examiner, even SUMMITPOST has copious previous threads to this effect...

I rest my case. :lol:
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Postby MoapaPk » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:40 pm

So I went to 14ers.com, typed Denver into the search, and BAM, there was a thread on mountains near Denver, and the first suggestion was that the questioner go to a library or bookstore.
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Postby MarthaP » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:48 pm

That's funny, I went to 14ers.com, figuring that they'd have anything and everything you want to know about 14ers organized in some sort of reasonable fashion and, sure enough, there's a drop-down menu that includes a 14ers location map, different groupings of 14ers, route info, what's easy, blah-blah-blah.

I don't hang out at 14ers.com so I'm as new to the website as probably the OP.

:roll:

PS - Woundedknee, I never brought up the subject of "kids these days." That's your interpretation. I'm referring to an assessment that a large majority of folks in general are lazy. That's not to say that a portion of your assessment is also correct - that a fair number of people actually do research. And an even larger portion likely doesn't hang out on forums but gets the book and hits the trail. :wink:
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Postby WoundedKnee » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:27 pm

MarthaP wrote:PS - Woundedknee, I never brought up the subject of "kids these days." That's your interpretation. I'm referring to an assessment that a large majority of folks in general are lazy. That's not to say that a portion of your assessment is also correct - that a fair number of people actually do research. And an even larger portion likely doesn't hang out on forums but gets the book and hits the trail. :wink:


"Kids these days" was a bit tongue in cheek, but this phrasing "What has happened to us? Have we stopped reading? Do folks no longer take pride in learning on their own?" led me to believe you think people are trending towards laziness. The only argument you'll get from me there is that I think people have always been lazy. :wink:

MarthaP wrote:Research FIRST, then ask INTELLIGENT questions.


For the record, I research first, then ask stupid questions.
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Postby MoapaPk » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:20 am

WoundedKnee wrote:For the record, I research first, then ask stupid questions.


Good one. LOL, and I really mean it.
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Postby Pivvay » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:11 am

fossana wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:
zenalpinist wrote:I'd like to do something sometime that might take place somewhere that isn't where I am presently at. I'm not sure what this will be but I hope that someone might have some leads that might produce some information that would be helpful in this endeavor.


Secor says you just follow the obvious weakness to a ledge system.


It goes at class 5.


But with careful route finding you can keep it at class 4
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Re: Figuring things out on your own

Postby Husker » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:22 am

truchas wrote:
MarthaP wrote:It was clear no one read the posts and, out of sheer laziness, wanted a quick answer without doing their own research.


Did you ever consider the thought that maybe the posts were poorly written and that is why nobody read them?


How does it go: "There are no stupid questions...just stupid people answering them?"
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