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Honesty in voting

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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby Baarb » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:53 pm

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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby Marmaduke » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:01 pm

You are telling us that if we ALL start voting using 7's, 8's and 9's that eventually those votes would be a positive? For the sake of arguement can you give a hypothetical? Like, if a page with a score of 90% had 10 SPers with all the same vote power, let's say 90%, vote 9's, what would happen? And if 10 more then 10 more then 10 more all voted 9 what would happen?

Because we all know that the page score goes DOWN. So how many votes would it take before the negative vote becomes a positive?

Did that make sense?
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby mrchad9 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:13 pm

Look at it this way...

Perhaps the system is not being used as designed, but that is because it was not designed well. If the 1000s of members here are not using it correctly, the simpler fix (should the decision be made to fix it) is to redesign the system. You just aren't going to be able to change the behaviors of 1000s of people, unless the design of the system facilitates that.

It IS possible to develop a system that promotes the voting behaviors desired. That decision just has to be made. Or a decision can made to leave the system (and behaviors) as is. Beyond that the discussion is just that and nothing more. Discussion.
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby CSUMarmot » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:34 pm

Ive gotten one 9 in my life. And it eats away at me...
Dammit kid get off mah lawn!!!
NoCo Chris
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby Marmaduke » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:52 pm

CSUMarmot wrote:Ive gotten one 9 in my life. And it eats away at me...


I just gave you an 8, what affect will that have on ya'? :wink:
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby chugach mtn boy » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:00 am

Part of the problem is that the people administering the system don't understand the system. It's just too quirky for ordinary human understanding.

An object that receives 20 ten votes and 2 eights or nines, all from veteran SPers, will be ranked lower than an object that is totally uninteresting, attracts only a couple of views, and receives one ten vote from a person who joined yesterday.
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby ExcitableBoy » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:29 am

In my view, the voting system would ideally foster constructive critsism which hopefully leads to better route descriptions and how to articles. I personally have rated items less than 10/10 but will PM the owner with specific constructive critism. I have also responded to indviduals who gave me a less than 10 score to ask how they might improve the page. My submissions are the better for it.
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby MoapaPk » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:59 am

When the FOIA took over in the US, the average merit review for government employees went from ~70% approval, to more like 95%.

What is an "interesting" picture? Maps get stuck in the huge bin of new photos, and get few votes. Typically a map is far, far more useful to someone who actually comes to SP for (shock!) beta, that is a wonderful picture of a sunset over the same area.
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby MarkDidier » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:30 am

MoapaPk wrote:Maps get stuck in the huge bin of new photos, and get few votes. Typically a map is far, far more useful to someone who actually comes to SP for (shock!) beta, that is a wonderful picture of a sunset over the same area.


+1

I love good maps...and vote on them often. Maps along with good photos of routes are much much more useful than the pretty pictures...and no, don't get many votes. I came up with an entire week's itinerary from just this one map Liba posted! Can't wait for the day I get to give it a try.
http://www.summitpost.org/grenadier-range-topo/716868
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby lcarreau » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:36 am

mvs wrote:...at the end of a month people start being mean and voting a bunch of 4,5,6s for a couple of days because they know the monthly credibility calculation is about to happen. Then it's back to treating the votes as a "Like" button ... :p


It ALL has to do with power and popularity and liking somebody ... :shock:

"I'm your top prime cut of meat, I'm your choice,
I wanna be elected ..
I'm Yankee doodle dandy in a gold Rolls Royce;
I wanna be elected.

Kids want a savior, and don't need a fake;
I wanna be elected ...
We're all gonna ROCK to the rules that I make ..
I wanna be ELECTED ..."


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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby Baarb » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:40 am

With regard to images, if the long arguments about making it easier for users to modify existing pages led to something it would mean things like maps could be incorporated prominently, as well as any new photos that show particularly good beta etc. That way a lot of the need for voting is rendered moot. Yes you can vote on it if you appreciate it but it gets exposure by default which was the point of uploading it in the first place. If people want to upload non-useful but attractive photos then by all means but they can stay in the image section where the current system or a better system will get them in more or less an order in which the majority will want to see them, and not detrimentally hide the beta stuff.

With regard to voting on pages, I'm not sure it matters what the vote is per se, yes it's a shame if someone doesn't tell you what''s bad about a page but you can ask them subsequently as has been said, and when you vote you can add in your comments on the page, or via PM. As there are no multiple entries for the same object, i.e. 3 pages on North Face DIrect up Magic Mountain people can judge for themselves how much they like something from the sum of what's available. For me the system mostly works at present regardless of its quirks. There is some crap stuff with high votes and vice versa but not too much.
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby mrchad9 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:46 am

OK... I just gave someone here an 8/10 on a submission they had, because it was pretty good, just not great (9/10) or outstanding (10/10). There was only one vote beforehand, so the score dropped from 86% to 73%.

I know... it was a douchebag move.
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby lcarreau » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:58 am

Voting sucks ... but then, so does GRAVITY ..

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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby alpine345 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:10 am

I'm new at playing this game. I thought a 5 corresponded to a "C" in school and a 10 was "A+". Based on that, I gave EB a 9 (an"A") on his recent article. We PM'ed and had a nice dialog. That's not the way it's supposed to work?? Why not?? I thought the goal was to provide quality information via peer review. If not that totally changes the way I'll interpret articles from now on.
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Re: Honesty in voting

Postby Josh Lewis » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:14 am

mrchad9 wrote:I know... it was a douchebag move.


:lol: I've seen worse. Someone "down rated" my featured trip report. :wink: No feelings hurt in that. 8) Now perhaps my next idea would have some negative effects, but what I've seen on a photography site was all votes were positive. But you could say how many points it was worth. So if there was a system that allowed you to place a vote something like 1-5 or 1-10 if people voted right the best stuff would still go on top. And the cool part about the "positive" system is that lets say someone made a page on a famous peak, the owner does a mediocre job, and you don't want to down vote this guy, you could give him 3 points. :wink:

But I suppose a negative side of that is that crappy pages might thrive. :twisted:
My Websites: Alpine Josh · Alpine Ascent · AceMaps
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