whitetail wrote:

lcarreau wrote:
You (really) seem to have a vast knowledge of beavers.

It's because I'm Canadian EH ...!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbsC_fGArVc[/youtube]

Noondueler wrote:

lcarreau wrote:

MoapaPk wrote: What will be next?

You will be reported to the elves if you post the mannerly black bear one more time! Put it in photoshop and put a beer between his paws and a steaming salmon on the table.

Your attention please ... this subject requires much more DIALOG (than you think) before reaching the ultimate and mostly final decision ...

lcarreau wrote:

Noondueler wrote:

lcarreau wrote:

MoapaPk wrote: What will be next?

You will be reported to the elves if you post the mannerly black bear one more time! Put it in photoshop and put a beer between his paws and a steaming salmon on the table.

Your attention please ... this subject requires much more DIALOG (than you think) before reaching the ultimate and mostly final decision ...

Even though I'm not a yank and I'm pretty sure we have more black bears than you - I love this . . .!

What was this thread about again


Rough Riding Presidents?





Water?





Bears?







Maybe the issue in the OP will be more settled by the time my dogs are old and gone. When the day comes that I don't need to focus on places I can get them out, I might do more hiking in SEKI than I do now. Meanwhile, I'll patiently wait (with beard still growing) and frequently roam nearby public lands with less restrictions and less crowding. So far we've avoided scaring the few people, horses, and other animals we've come across while hiking in the Sierra. Closer to home, encounters with all kinds of animals, including horses, are common. On our last hike, a herd of cattle grazing on both sides of the trail, just inside the entrance/exit gate, added extra excitement to the morning.

wow, theyre getting serious.
i had once heard that the sequoia backcountry wilderness was unique in that, when it got established, the trails were left as corridors of non-wilderness. does anyone know if theres any truth in that, or where that may have come from? i thought that that was where the exemptions came from.

anyway i hope they get to stay, not that im a big fan of packers, but theyre pretty spread out back there- compared to say- the bright angel trail in grand canyon (yikes).
and anything that increases visitation to those parts im generally willing to cut some slack. as it is anything past monarch lake you can pretty much have to yourself all summer. also, just looked this up: http://www.visitsequoia.com/bearpaw-closure-faq.aspx ---thats not cool!

as for stock and trails, my 2 cents, it was brought up in some of the other posts- yea they dont help matters but i wouldnt say its a type of situation where: stock deliver resupplys to the crews so they can build stock trails. the steps and waterbars do have to be a little bigger so as theyre not kicked out but i would think generally, just due to steepness and dusty soils, that they still wouldve needed to be installed... anyway thats my take on it, speaking with some experience.

Related, I am planning a backpack trip out of Courtright reservoir. Anyone know how the trail to Hell-For-Sure Pass is, in terms of horsepacker-borne sand/dust/mounds of crap?

A more general question, historically are there several selected trailheads leading into SeKi that do not allow commercial pack stock to enter or exit. I have a fair idea where pack eastside stations/corrals are located near a trailhead, but was under the impression they could exit where they desired by bringing horse trailers into an area for loading. Maybe not Whitney Portal trailhead?

SpazzyMcgee wrote:Related, I am planning a backpack trip out of Courtright reservoir. Anyone know how the trail to Hell-For-Sure Pass is, in terms of horsepacker-borne sand/dust/mounds of crap?

The trail is generally dusty to start (it actually starts on a 4x4 road for the first mile or so), turning dusty/sandy as it goes down into Long Meadow and along Post Corral Creek. Where it leaves Post Corral Creek it improves due to lower traffic. It gets even better at the junction just past Fleming Lake where the Hell-For-Trail starts. Overall it's a pretty nice route that doesn't see a lot of use.

Sandy portion in Long Meadow:


Hell-For-Sure Pass Trail:

ScottHanson wrote:A more general question, historically are there several selected trailheads leading into SeKi that do not allow commercial pack stock to enter or exit. I have a fair idea where pack eastside stations/corrals are located near a trailhead, but was under the impression they could exit where they desired by bringing horse trailers into an area for loading. Maybe not Whitney Portal trailhead?

Before the ban, they were allowed to bring horse trailers into Whitney Portal. It will be interesting to see if this ban holds up.

Them horses are good eatin'.

Mongo don't like them horses. Who is this Mongo, anyway ...?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H3luguo8Nw[/youtube]

I backpacked over Hell For Sure Pass, east to west, last Sept. The trail is not passable to stock from about Disappointment Lake on the west side to the Goddard Canyon junction on the east side. The drop from the pass west to Hell For Sure Lake is particularly steep and rough. Doesn't look like there has been any maintenance up there for a long time. Isn't even a sign at the Goddard Canyon junction, just an arrow carved in a tree. The route is not difficult to follow, generally, however some of the stream crossings (there are many) on the east side are ridiculously overgrown with willows - making for some irritating bushwacking.

I have never started a hike, backpack or climb from west side of the Sierra (except Happy Isles), so I can't comment on the volume of commercial horse packer trips on the Sierra west side versus east side. From my limited east side trips I have seen the highest concentration of commercial horse packers (and corral structures) in Pine Creek, Piute, and Bishop pass areas. I have had much fewer horse encounters along JMT from Tuolumne Meadows to Florence Lake.

horse packing in SeKi update

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/20 ... k9933.html

Looks like I horsed up (pardon the pun) the link on my prior posting. Bottom line, if you go to http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com under May 18 news: It appears legislation is going forwarded to allow commercial horse packing in SeKi. Several good comments on both side of the issue.