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How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby Sunny Buns » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:13 am

That's good that the feds are "allowing" the states to pay to run the parks but the price tag is ridiculous. They don't need full service. At most they only need to keep the roads safe, and the toilets cleaned and trash collected. They don't need rangers, visitor centers, etc. In fact, they should never open visitor centers again at any of the parks.
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby lcarreau » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:51 am

"Some visitors staying at a hotel near the popular and famous Old Faithful geyser when the partial government shutdown closed Yellowstone National Park last week complained of "Gestapo tactics" and feeling confined to their lodge by armed rangers ..."


Image



http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/wireStory/yellowstone-tour-group-treatment-draws-complaints-20522023
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby Sunny Buns » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:15 am

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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby peninsula » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:19 pm

peninsula wrote:
KathyW wrote:
peninsula wrote:I recently went over Kearsarge P. and enjoyed exploring Vidette Basin mid-September. Great trip. I'd like to go over again early next week before the predicted snow arrives Wed/Thur. But with the Fed shutdown, I'm not sure if I'll have access to the trailhead in Onion Valley. Is the Onion Valley Trailhead parking area gated? I'm figuring there will be signage for closure, but if there is no gate and no one to enforce the closure, I'm ready to go back over. Any information appreciated! Cheers, G


There is no gate on the road to Onion Valley; so as long as that snow that is forecast for this week doesn't amount to much you should be able to drive up there. The road to Horseshoe Meadows has been gated - I'm not sure how that is okay because that's a County road.


Returned from a great backpack outing over Kearsarge Pass Oct. 8. Hunkered down at Lake Reflection and enjoyed the first October snowstorm on Oct 9 (12 hours of steady snowfall). It was awesome! Only 4 cars in the Onion Valley parking lot when I arrived. Bathroom doors were locked and signage posted to the effect of NP closure, fines, and jail time. Within the park, bear lockers were locked as well. Otherwise, everything was just as before. Came out over K. Pass yesterday and there were 15 cars in the lot! As time goes by, more and more of us are simply ignoring these closures. If there are no gates, these closures change nothing except for those folks whose incomes are taking a hit (the true victims of this pathetic Gov shutdown). Over dinner at the Mt. Whitney Restaurant, I read in the Inyo Register all of the published letters to the editor regarding this shutdown put the blame squarely on the Republicans. The locals along HW 395 have it right.
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby lcarreau » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:32 pm

peninsula wrote:
Returned from a great backpack outing over Kearsarge Pass Oct. 8. Hunkered down at Lake Reflection and enjoyed the first October snowstorm on Oct 9 (12 hours of steady snowfall). It was awesome! Only 4 cars in the Onion Valley parking lot when I arrived. Bathroom doors were locked and signage posted to the effect of NP closure, fines, and jail time. Within the park, bear lockers were locked as well. Otherwise, everything was just as before. Came out over K. Pass yesterday and there were 15 cars in the lot! As time goes by, more and more of us are simply ignoring these closures. If there are no gates, these closures change nothing except for those folks whose incomes are taking a hit (the true victims of this pathetic Gov shutdown). Over dinner at the Mt. Whitney Restaurant, I read in the Inyo Register all of the published letters to the editor regarding this shutdown put the blame squarely on the Republicans. The locals along HW 395 have it right.




YEAH BUT .... did you see any snakes? :D
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby peninsula » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:05 pm

lcarreau wrote:
peninsula wrote:
Returned from a great backpack outing over Kearsarge Pass Oct. 8. Hunkered down at Lake Reflection and enjoyed the first October snowstorm on Oct 9 (12 hours of steady snowfall). It was awesome! Only 4 cars in the Onion Valley parking lot when I arrived. Bathroom doors were locked and signage posted to the effect of NP closure, fines, and jail time. Within the park, bear lockers were locked as well. Otherwise, everything was just as before. Came out over K. Pass yesterday and there were 15 cars in the lot! As time goes by, more and more of us are simply ignoring these closures. If there are no gates, these closures change nothing except for those folks whose incomes are taking a hit (the true victims of this pathetic Gov shutdown). Over dinner at the Mt. Whitney Restaurant, I read in the Inyo Register all of the published letters to the editor regarding this shutdown put the blame squarely on the Republicans. The locals along HW 395 have it right.




YEAH BUT .... did you see any snakes? :D


It looked like a serpent of some sort, I saw it on the shores of Lake Reflection covered with snow. I'll cobble together a trip report eventually and you can see for yourself. :wink:
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby MoapaPk » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:38 pm

I went for a post-surgery hike today around Red Rock Canyon (NV), starting from Calico Basin, looping around Sandstone Quarry, and back to Calico about 8 miles later. We had to cross by "the official" parking at Sandstone Quarry, and I was a bit worried that we would arouse the ire of folks guarding the scenic loop. We passed within sight of one BLM vehicle, but they paid us no mind.

The BLM folks seem to be trying hard to be reasonable. They post guards near the paved entry and exit of the Scenic loop, but make no effort to prevent people from parking at the Kraft Mt lot -- even though they could legally gate that. They did draw the gate across the parking for Red Springs -- but that area is hard enough to control when it is open (all the people leaving trash at the picnic tables, all the taggers parking there to spray-paint the rocks around the petroglyphs), so I can't blame them. They didn't prevent folks from going across the parking to the use trails. The rock climbers who normally start near Red Springs were parking everywhere on the road in. not bothering in the least to keep their cars from jutting into the road, and sorting gear in the paved road. The BLM folks were showing great restraint with these self-righteous assholes.
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby KathyW » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:36 am

Barriers up and Rangers guarding Christmas Tree Pass Road in Lake Mead National Recreation area. They only guard one entrance at a time and the ranger said the barriers keep getting removed when they aren't standing guard. There were no barrier or signs at one end when I went through, but the rangers stopped me as they were headed up to the end with the missing barrier to place a new barrier. They ran my license but didn't ticket me, but they had put a ticket on a vehicle that was parked at the Grapevine Canyon Trailhead (no closed signs at the trailhead). The only improvement along that road that I saw was a pit toilet at the Grapevine Canyon Trailhead. Now, there's an area that is closed and gated just to send a message - there's no other reason to do it.
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby Buz Groshong » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:47 pm

Although the govt. shutdown is a vacation for many govt. employees, it is likely also causing some inconvenience for others. I don't doubt that some of what is seen as trying to make the situation painful for us, is really an expression of the frustration of govt. employees who would like to do their job without all of the political crap.
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby colinr » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:37 pm

Buz Groshong wrote:Although the govt. shutdown is a vacation for many govt. employees, it is likely also causing some inconvenience for others. I don't doubt that some of what is seen as trying to make the situation painful for us, is really an expression of the frustration of govt. employees who would like to do their job without all of the political crap.


http://cathybell.org/2013/10/12/the-view-from-behind-the-locked-gate-the-government-shutdown-and-the-national-parks/
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby Buz Groshong » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:27 pm

SeanReedy wrote:
Buz Groshong wrote:Although the govt. shutdown is a vacation for many govt. employees, it is likely also causing some inconvenience for others. I don't doubt that some of what is seen as trying to make the situation painful for us, is really an expression of the frustration of govt. employees who would like to do their job without all of the political crap.


http://cathybell.org/2013/10/12/the-view-from-behind-the-locked-gate-the-government-shutdown-and-the-national-parks/


While I do agree with that article, I will have to admit that there have been some instances of absurd extremes on the part of govt. personnel. The barricading of a three-car pull-off on the G.W. Parkway that I mentioned earlier is a perfect example; it doesn't keep anybody out, it merely inconveniences a few drivers and a bunch of bicycle riders. The right-wing demonstrators at the WWII Memorial tried to blame this sort of stupidity on the White House rather than on human nature. Sorry, but when you've got as big an axe to grind as they have, I want to see some evidence before I believe it. We also need to remember that when they took the political favoritism out of civil service, they made it very difficult to get rid of incompetent govt. employees, so, in spite of the many great, dedicated people in govt., we're stuck with a lot of human nature there also.
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:38 pm

The BLM does it better, and really this is what the NPS ought to be doing.

This is a shot of the entrance to the camping area at Chimney Creek/Canebreak Road in the southern Sierra. Apparently there was no existing gate for the campground… normally the spot doesn’t even have a fee to camp there… just donations. Well an intrepid ranger took it upon themself to rope the place off with survey tape.

I see no reason to close the place at all. As I have told others, just walk out and leave the door open. But this is the next best thing. If folks don’t want to go in, they don’t have to. But if they do then there is nothing (well very little) to stop them.

Turns out there is a separate exit to the campground and you could drive in the wrong way without even disturbing the survey tape. Great way to have a campground all to yourself.

If the NPS would do this and stop standing behind gates waving around guns then maybe folks wouldn’t be lining up against them.

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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby Sunny Buns » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:46 pm

Over dinner at the Mt. Whitney Restaurant, I read in the Inyo Register all of the published letters to the editor regarding this shutdown put the blame squarely on the Republicans. The locals along HW 395 have it right.


No, the locals didn't get it right, but Edward Klein did:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/10/mr-obama-presidency-is-no-place-for-amateurs/
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:12 pm

peninsula wrote:bear lockers were locked as well

Oh for fucks sake! Just when I thought the NPS was doing everything it could to humiliate itself they step it up a notch.

The remaining gov't employees should start wearing their clothes inside out!
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Re: How a Govt Shutdown would affect National Parks?

Postby MoapaPk » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:22 pm

KathyW wrote:Barriers up and Rangers guarding Christmas Tree Pass Road in Lake Mead National Recreation area.


Good info Kathy. But a note for all: Lake Mead, though not a national park, is managed by NPS; that may be a critical difference.

Even if the majority of parks people mean well, it takes just small minority, doing jerky things, to make them all seem jerky in the public eye.
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