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Idea for a new national park in New Mexico

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Re: Idea for a new national park in New Mexico

Postby Sunny Buns » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:06 am

Noone has suggested denying anyone the opportunity to visit nature and noone would even THINK such a thing. There are unlimited opportunities to enjoy nature in NM.

I suggested we cannot afford another NP with the vast spending binge it would cause considering that the nation is already bankrupt. What is it about "bankrupt" that is so difficult to understand? Repeat annual deficits of 1.5 Trillion dollars should cause ANYONE to think twice about ANY more unnecessary spending.

The financial downturn we have experienced to date is not over - it may be just getting started. This video is a commercial to get you to sign up for an investing newsletter or something but the information seems to make a lot of sense. If you want the "free" book, I'd buy it somewhere else - I would not give these folks my credit card,etc.
http://w3.newsmax.com/a/aftershockb/video47.cfm?promo_code=110D8-1
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Re: Idea for a new national park in New Mexico

Postby Mark Doiron » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:58 am

Sunny Buns wrote:... I suggested we cannot afford another NP with the vast spending binge it would cause considering that the nation is already bankrupt. What is it about "bankrupt" that is so difficult to understand? ...

The nation is not bankrupt. Stay away from partisan hyperbole and stick with facts and maybe you'll get some serious discussion along these lines.
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Re: Idea for a new national park in New Mexico

Postby surgent » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:29 pm

Flagstaff, Arizona, would not see the amount of traffic and accompanying spending it gets were it not for the Grand Canyon nearby, and a sizeable number of people come to the Grand Canyon precisely because it is a National Park. The name and status undoubtedly enhances its attraction to tourists. Thus, declaring the Grand Canyon a National Park has been an extremely good idea financially. The Flagstaff Chamber of Commerce would agree.

It is true it attracts a number of foolish people, but their money is green, too. Declaring the Grand Canyon a National Park may have ruined a small percentage of its area for development, but 99% of the Park is as pristine as it was 2000 years ago, and safe forevermore from short-term development.

We have the money, and/or the means to get the money. Whether through direct fees, or taxes, you'll pay for the park, or whatever designation it gets. People (e.g rangers, support staff) don't work for free. It is not money forever lost. It circulates. Thus, if the Jemez area in New Mexico ever gets elevated to a National Park, the initial costs isn't money down a hole, but an investment, and a fairly safe one, knowing that people will come there who might otherwise not have.
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Re: Idea for a new national park in New Mexico

Postby Sunny Buns » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:36 am

Quote:
Stay away from partisan hyperbole and stick with facts and maybe you'll get some serious discussion along these lines.


Very good point. Thank you. I will stick strictly with the facts and here they are:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWastYDvN6E
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Re: Idea for a new national park in New Mexico

Postby Bubba Suess » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:09 pm

Sunny Buns wrote:Very good point. Thank you. I will stick strictly with the facts and here they are:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWastYDvN6E

Sunny, now you are just making yourself look asinine.
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Re: Idea for a new national park in New Mexico

Postby Swithich » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:30 am

I can't post on your other topic, but I'll post here.

I really hate parks, wildernesses, and monuments.

I've found wildernesses make it harder to get where I want to go (because all roads are closed in a wilderness). I find this pointless.

Parks and monuments take money out of my pocket to get places I want to go, make it for difficult to get where I want to go (no overnight camping in the Jemez), and attract a lot of people who have no business (in my opinion) being there.

That is national parks and national monuments in my opinion end up crowding and trashing the places I love, and wildernesses punitively penalize me for loving a place [and wildernesses are in general made by congressman a) have no respect for wild places and b) who see a way to save money because they don't have to legally spend any money to maintain wilderness].

I would prefer many of these places remain BLM and NFS with primative roads where I can camp and hike free of the standard beings who, in there mind, to do something cool, go to a place they have no respect for.

Just my opinion on the matter.

-Swithich
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Re: Idea for a new national park in New Mexico

Postby Sunny Buns » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:45 am

Quote:
Sunny, now you are just making yourself look asinine.


You may be right. Time will tell. My point is that with the current out of control spending by the federal goobermint, it would seem prudent to STOP SPENDING MONEY WE DON'T HAVE ON STUFF WE DON'T NEED. Just because you WANT something does not mean it is a good idea to borrow money to buy it. Maybe that's what got our country into the current mess, eh? http://adask.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/the-wealth-of-nations-vs-the-debts-of-government/

Perhaps after the US gets back to being prosperous, and if we have the energy resources to spare on more trips to the NP, I might go for another NP, but today I would oppose it. Our trajectory, if it isn't changed, will bring us to a point pretty close to this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

I do love wilderness areas, and NPs also, but NPs have way too much bureaucracy and red tape so I avoid them for the most part. "You have to have a permit for a specific backcountry campground for each night. You cannot camp anywhere except in a campground." "Blah, blah, blah........

I'd suggest if you just want people to be able to get a brief view of nature that perhaps the state of NM could add some viewpoints with educational materials along highways in the area. I would be totally opposed to building new roads into the area you are referring to for such purposes - cost being just one point of opposition.
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