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is it still climbing if you use a guidebook?

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Postby cp0915 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:11 pm

The Chief wrote:cp0915...

Did you climb every route that is in your GB?


Yes. In both of them, actually.
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Postby Day Hiker » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:38 pm

cp0915 wrote:
The Chief wrote:cp0915...

Did you climb every route that is in your GB?


Yes. In both of them, actually.


I will vouch for that.

Chief, it's not really CP's style to put second-hand information in his books. And it's definitely not his style to lie about it. That I can guarantee; what he says is true. He climbed all those crazy peaks.
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Postby cp0915 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:12 pm

Day Hiker wrote:
cp0915 wrote:
The Chief wrote:cp0915...

Did you climb every route that is in your GB?


Yes. In both of them, actually.


I will vouch for that.

Chief, it's not really CP's style to put second-hand information in his books. And it's definitely not his style to lie about it. That I can guarantee; what he says is true. He climbed all those crazy peaks.


Thank you, sir. With a little help and companionship from people like you.

And for crying out loud, I even admit when I'm too chickenshit to finish a climb. I turned back on two attempts of The Sentinel, and told everyone about it in my Zion book.
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Postby kevin trieu » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:12 pm

cp0915 wrote:
The Chief wrote:cp0915...

Did you climb every route that is in your GB?


Yes. In both of them, actually.

:)

I think maybe folks are talking about different ways of using a guidebook here? One way to use it is to obtain enough essential information to stay alive vs. using a guidebook to get so much detailed information that you can climb a route blindfolded because every hold, move and placement has been given. If I was going to climb in the Caucasus Russia/Georgia, I would want the beta on where the conflict region is so I don't fool around there and get shot. Likewise, if I was climbing in Alaska I would want some beta on the most likely place where the icefalls/seracs like to come down.

Then there's always the debate of people wanting more or less of an adventure. If you are are Peter Croft then you can just head towards the Incredible Hulk and starts climbing. If you are Joe Shmole like me then you probably want to know that the route he went up as an adventure could possibly kill you.

If you didn't know that you needed a 60m rope to rap Castleton Tower and you took a 50m, you are gonna be in a world of shit. Beta like that are helpful.
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Postby cp0915 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:44 pm

Indeed, Kevin. Hence my "broad brush" comment.
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Postby Dow Williams » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:00 pm

cp0915 wrote:And for crying out loud, I even admit when I'm too chickenshit to finish a climb. I turned back on two attempts of The Sentinel, and told everyone about it in my Zion book.


"The Names Have Been Changed To Protect The Innocent" .....I saw somebody up there in red pants with a pinkish hue once.....
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Postby cp0915 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:57 pm

I'm never gonna live down those awful red pants.
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Postby rpc » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:14 pm

Red climbing pants were all the rage among Euro climbers (at least in '08)!!
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Postby The Chief » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:38 am

Now, do you honestly believe that the author of this GB climbed every route in his book....Image



I know for a fact he didn't. Many of the ratings and the bolt counts are off etc.
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Postby ksolem » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:22 am

If the standard for a guidebook were that the author had to have done every climb in the book, there would not be very many guidebooks done. Especially for areas with a lot of routes.

We’ve all seen some excellent books by authors who did not do every route. But it is incumbent on a guidebook writer to have done a lot of the routes, know the area inside out, be a part of the local climbing community and to have access to good first hand information from other climbers. Information about any route in the book the author has not climbed should be vetted by climbers who have done it whom the author trusts.

And still, as Chief says, it’s a reference, not a Bible.

A guidebook should first and foremost do a good job of documenting the climbs, their grades, how to find them and the best way off, their history and any unusual characteristics the route might have in a general sense. For example: P2 needs a good selection of small wired stoppers. The specifics of how to do the route, i.e. “hidden holds inside crack,” or “yellow alien here,” should be left to the climbers to figure out. The best way to minimize errors in a guidebook is to avoid the temptation to provide too much information.
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Postby The Chief » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:09 am

Had a very heated discussion last Sunday over the authenticity of the "Crux" location on a certain route with my partner for the day. He deemed it where the GB indicated where it was down low. I differed. He is 6 foot and I 5'6". My crux was towards the top of the route as I have found intermediate moves where he claimed his crux. He can stretch and grab the last hold where I can't. I must use a very thin side pull and then high step onto a dime size ledge with a follow through in order to gain that last hold.

It's all reference as to where the Anchors, Bolts, Rack Req and Aspect formations of the route are. Nothing more.

And please don't tell me where to place the gear and what technique to use in each locale....
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Postby Rob A » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:25 pm

The Chief wrote:In many cases, the author climbed less that 25% of the routes within the covers. They have little actual first hand knowledge of the routes.


This makes me appreciate Dick Williams Gunks Guides a whole lot more!
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Postby erykmynn » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:50 pm

My boss always says:

"If it's on paper, it's out of date"

:lol:
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Postby cp0915 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:53 pm

What if it's not on paper?
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Postby ksolem » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:05 pm

That’s it! Climbing beta downloads for your iPod.

Imagine, It will suggest an appropriate playlist for the approach hike. Then when you are at the base, it will tell you exactly what gear to take, and talk you through the optimal way to rack it up.

You’ll need two purple Camalots in a row for the crux, and you’ll want to place them from left hand jams – so rack them together on your right front gear loop.


You’ll be able to choose, depending on your preferences, whether to have a sultry female whisper beta in your ears as you float up the climb, or a strong firm man directing your every move as you send… Heck, it could even have a Chief setting, which would turn on automatically if you hangdog or move too slowly. The volume will double and the words won't be pretty until you get going again...

At the belays you’ll get history lessons about the route, the Gods who did it first, and the fact that although they rated it 5.8, it is 5.10 now because they were from The Gunks and didn’t know any better. You'll also learn how the route was climbed several times prior to it's first ascent, but since those climbers did not think they were first why should they get the credit...

On the hike out it will continually mix subliminal messages into your music, telling you how well you did, and gradually erasing any memory of that hang you took at the crux, and the draw you grabbed up high when you were gassed.
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