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Is it winter?

Post general questions and discuss issues related to climbing.
 

Re: Is it winter?

Postby MoapaPk » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:01 pm

ten-four, good buddy. Got your ears on?
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby Charles » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:07 pm

MoapaPk wrote:ten-four, good buddy. Got your ears on?

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Re: Is it winter?

Postby dskoon » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:57 pm

charles wrote:
MoapaPk wrote:ten-four, good buddy. Got your ears on?

Image


Trucker talk, Charles. . .
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby Clark_Griswold » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:23 pm

We had 2 to 3 inches of snow at my house NE of Black Mesa, AZ and we had maybe 1/5 to 1/3 of an inch of rain on Saturday, so we did really well for the month. I prefer rain below 6,000', so I don't have to deal with the snow, but at least we got something. The wind and blowing dust was horrible on Saturday before it started to rain.

Over most of the rest of west, even with the impressive totals from the recent series of storms, there are large deficits, because it was was so dry during the previous 6 to 8 weeks, or more. Anywhere from 4 to 12 inches, depending on locations. That could be made up, but it seems unlikely this year will be like last year. Not that I think anyone would complain. The Sierra sits at maybe 50% of normal.
...
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby peninsula » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:39 pm

3Deserts wrote:The BCP is not native? Do you know where the seed or cutting came from?


As far as speaking of the BCP not being native, I mean it is not native to San Diego County. Pine Valley has a mixture of alpine and high desert flora. At 3700 feet, it is a good elevation for pine as well as a decent variety of oak. Of the native pine species, mostly we have coulter and jeffery. I'm trying for the most part to stay native with my plantings with some exceptions. I'll check with the nursery to see exactly what species of BCP I have and where they acquired it. I am aware of the genetic similarities between foxtail and BCP, but I had no idea until reading up on them last year.

3Deserts wrote:What's your soil like? I wonder if a healthy amendment of limestone might not hurt.


The soil around my property is primarily a slightly loamy variety of decomposed granite. Drainage is very good. I understand englemann oak prefers more clay in the soil, so I'm not sure how well they will do in this environment, which is on the edge of their native habitat range. I do have a line on some smallish 15 gallon specimens if the bigger tree falls through, but thanks for the tip on the alternative nursery. As for the pine and cedar specimens, I'm going to check with the nursery on an soil amendments before I do the planting (they are closed until tomorrow).

3Deserts wrote:
I've got six different species on my hill (Q. agrifolia, chrysolepis, kelloggii, cornelius-mulleri, john-tuckeri, and turbinella, the last three being shrub oaks). The black oak is growing extremely slowly, but that's expected.


Wow, that's a nice variety of oak, you've got some hill there!

And back to the subject, we did get a dusting of snow on Laguna Mountain last night.
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby butitsadryheat » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:01 am

I've got a giant sequoia in my yard in the central valley, and it is now about 25 feet tall after 10 years. Does just fine, as long as the ground under it is adequately mulched and moist. If it can survive here, it should do just fine where you are in Pine Valley. We planted one at the same time at my cousins cabin in Cuyamaca, and it's easily 15 feet now (we planted many trees after the fire there)
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby MoapaPk » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:28 am

The mountains west of Las Vegas got snow down to about 5000' last night. At the end of today, snow was still on the N sides, and to the east of Red Rock, to about 6000'. But it will warm up in the next few days...

As for unnatural growth... most plants in suburban Vegas are not natural. I have a small patch of African fescue grass that does fine... if it receives the equivalent of 30 inches of rain a year. We have natural acacias in areas that (broadly) get just 4" of rain a year, but they grow mainly in washes that concentrate water. The popular decorative mesquites (the same genus) don't do well unless they get the equivalent of 10" or more -- these plants come from Arizona and Texas. People grow lots of plants -- like Palo Verde or Chihuahuan cacti -- that really do poorly in these colder temps; they live because their competition is constantly weeded away.
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby SeanReedy » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:49 am

I'm forunate to live 10 minutes from a choice of hikes among coast redwoods, a variety of oaks, or a grand mix of both along with other trees. Ya'll are renewing my interest in being more knowledgeable about the specifics. I grew up in a mixed oak forest at the far northern end of the central valley, with a dad who planted a bunch of coast redwoods among them. It was becoming trendy by the time I planted mine, but I've got several aptos blues in my yard. The first ones, planted about 7 years ago, are over 25 feet tall now. We get foggy mornings a lot in the summer and often over 20 inches of rain, with double to quadruple that amount up in the redwood canyons. It's still looking more and more like average numbers will be hard to reach, but we're coming off a huge rain year.

Image

I note that it has been in the spirit of this lengthy and meandering thread to post pics at several points. Maybe Wednesday can include some tree pictures. I know I've got some somewhere.
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby peninsula » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:24 pm

Feedback on tree plantings from butitsadryheat and SeanReedy impresses me with how quickly these trees can grow! I was talking to Max, the owner of Grandpa's nursery, and he told me about his planting of over 150 jeffery and coulter pines back in the 70's. He lost all but one each in the McCoy and Cedar fires. The surviving coulter has an 8-foot trunk circumference and it over 80-feet tall, the jeffery is even taller.

As to Vegas and the un-natural flora, the same can be said for San Diego and most of SoCal. Coastal San Diegans seem to be clueless as to the fact they are living in a desert! When I visit friends in Phoenix, I'm impressed with many of the neighborhood yards being planted in native flora, or at least drought tolerant, non-invasive specimens. I hardly ever see that in coastal San Diego. Nothing bothers me more than a large, manicured green lawn being watered with automatic sprinklers while it is raining!

Unrelated to my rant, I did confirm the ID on the BCP, it is a Pinus aristata (indigenous to the Rockies), and it came from Oregon. I wish I could be around in 75 years to see how it comes along, but my son and daughter could be... all the better for them.

Friday, I'm taking the horse trailer up to the Moosa Creek Nursery in Valley Center and picking up one 24" (box diameter) englemann and maybe one or two more in 15-gallon containers.

Today is windy! It is forecasted to be dry the remainder of the month. I'm hoping for a wetter February than we experienced for January. Total January rainfall in Pine Valley came to a paltry 1.8" as compared to the average of 5.5". Average rainfall for February is over 6".
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby The Chief » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:29 pm

Let's put this "NOAA Drought" concept into perspective.

As it was shared with me yesterday by the Eastern Sierra District LADWP's lead hydrologist (who is a friend and flew in yesterday in a LADWP Bell 407 for fuel during his mid-winter aerial survey) NINE of the last TEN years have been ABOVE NORMAL snow pack years in the Sierra from the border of Oregon all the way to their southern tip, with the last two being well over 175% ABOVE normal. He stated that all the reservoirs within the Eastern Sierra district are well over 110% capacity and maintaining that level with normal required flow rates to sustain the LADWP's req's for the LA Basin via the Aqueduct. This stems from the hundreds of incredibly deep and large natural ground water aquifers throughout the Sierra, sustaining overflowing capacities and continue to feed the streams that supply the above ground water flows. From what he and his team see, this flow will continue through the end of this year if not well into next year. Thus, he is not at all concerned if the Sierra experiences a "BELOW NORMAL" snow pack this season. He even stated that we could comfortably survive another. Fact is according to him and the LADWP's snow survey records stemming back to 1920ish, statistics show that will not happen.

When I asked him about the weekly NOAA Drought Assessment Report, he chuckled and shared that the NOAA lately has had an ill habit of "overboarding their drought graphs" and have been utilizing a far too short of a time period to claim such on their weekly Drought Assessment Data Report. According to him, the NOAA never includes current below ground water level assessment data in this report, at least not from his team. In his opinion, by not including this data, it actually does not tell the truth as to water levels that should be included in any "drought assessment report" for all the regions within their weekly published report.

Thus, according to my friend, the above should be considered when any NOAA "Drought Assessments" are looked at and used to make any drought claims.


But for those that insist on standing on the doom and gloom soap box, that information will never be shared. It doesn't sustain their position.

Over and Out.
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby TimB » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:43 pm

The Chief wrote:
3Deserts wrote:
peninsula wrote:...and 1 bristlecone pine (15 gallon).


Whoah, I'm very curious where you got a 15 gallon Bristlecone! Hell, I'd take a 1 gallon, fiver, ANYTHING!

Or did you grow it from seed?

Chalfant Tree Farm right up the road from my home carries 1, 5 15 & 25 gallon BCP's as well as many other varieties of local pines. Moderately priced as well. Got a 15 gallon one just last month and planted it in our front yard where he can look up at his many relatives directly behind our home.

Nice job Greg on the planting.



Over and out.


I would love to have a Bristlecone in my yard-. I wonder how they would do in the southern Idaho climate?
Hmmm....
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby butitsadryheat » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:26 pm

I have 4 redwoods in my backyard and side yard, but they are not the Aptos Blue, they are the true Santa Cruz variety that you see on the coast. They are doing very well with sufficient water. I planted my last one about 6 years ago as a 15 gallon, and it is 25 feet now, and lush green.
We have seen a large die off of Aptos Blue here, not only because they are not native to here, but many people plant them near walls and streets, where they get oppressive radiant heat. Mine have at least 6 inches of duff built up under them over the years, and are set back from the heat. In the hot areas, I have a Chilean Mesquite, which does very well here. Palo Verdes tend to get crown rot with the clay soils we have here unless planted perfectly.
I also have 2 red oaks and a burr oak, which is a very slow grower, but has a beautiful, Tim Burton(y) look to the structure, and bloom heavy with nice little catkins every spring. I find a seedling or two every year if anyone is interested. The one in my yard is approx 15 years old, and is maybe 15-20 feet tall.
Between all the redwoods, sequoias, Himalayan white birch, and Canary Island Pines, I am able to have a nice understory of Japanese Maples that no longer get the wind burn they used to, and they get great color now.
Looking at replacing the Canary Islands, as their pitch gives the maples a little trouble, and the needles are a nuisance in the yard. Looking to change them to a Shoestring Acacia, which is simialr to a eucalyptus, but with pine needle like leaf, but it isn't nearly as messy or sticky.
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby Marmaduke » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:44 pm

I have to 2 Queen Palms and a California Fan Palm in backyard. Very cold/freeze resistant. My Banana Plants die back but always come back in the late spring.
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby SeanReedy » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:12 pm

Chief, thanks for sharing the interesting notes on California-Sierra water supply that match what I've noticed. More attention given to groundwater data would be fun to follow. I haven't paid close attention, but I doubt the story is as rosey in the deeper southwest.
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Peninsula, although I won't pursue it living where I do, the bristlecone pine is what caught my interest the most.
There are also some huge, fast growing, and interesting to admire deodore cedars across the creek from my backyard.
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butitsadryheat wrote:I have 4 redwoods in my backyard and side yard, but they are not the Aptos Blue, they are the true Santa Cruz variety that you see on the coast...We have seen a large die off of Aptos Blue here, not only because they are not native to here, but many people plant them near walls and streets, where they get oppressive radiant heat. Mine have at least 6 inches of duff built up under them over the years, and are set back from the heat...oak...nice understory of Japanese Maples that no longer get the wind burn they used to, and they get great color now.


Sounds a lot like the trendiness I've noticed with the aptos blue in many places, including in shopping centers and along sun beaten walls down the street from me (we do get intense heat waves here most summers, but nothing like the constant dry heat of the Valley). Your yard sounds a lot like my dad's, but he's been going with aptos blue in the last few years as he adds more redwoods. It works under the shade of the majestic old oaks. He's also lucky to live near the Sacramento River and next to a well lot. When his fences fell down in big winter storms, he expanded his yard onto a P.G. & E. easement, as well as onto the well lot. Eventually a subdivision went in behind him, requiring a back fence to cut off the P.G. & E. section, but the city water workers actually started to immitate his redwood plantings among the oaks and left a large swath of land for him to tend to behind a row of oleanders that they added. He likes to plant giant pumpkins there, among many other fruits and vegetables in the sunny areas.
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Re: Is it winter?

Postby Gafoto » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:51 am

TimB wrote:I would love to have a Bristlecone in my yard-. I wonder how they would do in the southern Idaho climate?
Hmmm....

They really don't do well in adverse conditions...

But really, it would probably do alright, as long as the soil is somewhat similar to their natural habitat. The idea of planting a tree that could not only outlive me, but my house, my city and quite possibly western civilization as we know it is kind of appealing. I know, I'll carve my name in it!
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