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Langley death

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Langley death

Postby MoapaPk » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:30 am

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/M ... 737729.php

I'm curious if anyone has a better idea where he was found. The blurbs states "below Old Army Pass;" I was under the impression that the pass was pretty snow-free this year.
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Re: Langley death

Postby Kahuna » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:51 am

Sad!


Must be the date. It is the third anniversary of Jack Pressman's passing of HAPE, just down the trail.
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Re: Langley death

Postby aermotor » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:25 am

Bummer. Would like to know what happened, too bad they don't say.
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Re: Langley death

Postby johnm » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:17 am

It may be weather related, according to another forum two others in his party turned back and Tom pushed on to the summit.
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Re: Langley death

Postby MoapaPk » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:06 am

I was just asked (by his friend) not to speculate, but wait for more official details. It isn't morbid curiosity; I'd like to learn from this tragedy.
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Re: Langley death

Postby mrchad9 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:27 am

If his friend didn't want people to speculate then he should provide some information.

I first heard about it at work when someone saw it online and mentioned it to me. Due to the conditions I would presume it wasn't snow related and was more likely to have been due to some underlying medical condition. That's just speculation though- but seems like a plausible explanation.
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Re: Langley death

Postby PellucidWombat » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:58 pm

I was just asked (by his friend) not to speculate, but wait for more official details. It isn't morbid curiosity; I'd like to learn from this tragedy.


mrchad9 wrote:If his friend didn't want people to speculate then he should provide some information.


That's your response to the bereaved's loved ones request to just wait until all of the facts are in? You're an ass, Chad.
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Re: Langley death

Postby mrchad9 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:35 pm

PellucidWombat wrote:
I was just asked (by his friend) not to speculate, but wait for more official details. It isn't morbid curiosity; I'd like to learn from this tragedy.


mrchad9 wrote:If his friend didn't want people to speculate then he should provide some information.


That's your response to the bereaved's loved ones request to just wait until all of the facts are in? You're an ass, Chad.

His friend is not in charge of public discussion and has no right to dictate the discourse of those who may wish to learn or use the events which occurred on Mount Langley as a lesson. It has already been published in the papers and people are free to discuss it if they like. I was respectful of the victim. As I stated, if his friend wanted people to base their discussions on additional details, then he is free to share them. But you cannot tell people to simply quit talking, nor does name calling improve your postion.

Perhaps if you had learned from some of the previous incidents you have been a part of (how many is it now Mark?), then there wouldn't have been so many in the first place. You continue to push yourself and your partners above and beyond safe limits for the terrain, weather, and conditions- and but for those who have stood up to you then there would have been more incidents. Such actions may be ok every now and again, but when you do it every week it is followed by something tragic. No surprise you take issue with people wanting to evaluate the causes for a rescue or recovery in the mountains.

How many unplanned bivys above 13,000 feet and SARs in the two years following your Shasta trip did you have?
Last edited by mrchad9 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Langley death

Postby MoapaPk » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:58 pm

Oooo-kay, I didn't quite plan for the thread to turn out this way.

Knock on wood, I've become safer over the years from consideration of past mistakes; mine and others'. Mark's experiences made me more cautious, and his frank reporting was helpful to me. Certainly has influenced what I carry. I've never had to deal with an unplanned bivy, but it might be good to have the experience, to know what to expect in a very real way. A good bivy might be preferable to descending an icy pass in a dark storm.

We are all trying to build up that database in our brains, full of ways to deal with contingencies.
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Re: Langley death

Postby clmbr » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:06 pm

mrchad9 wrote:. . .
His friend is not in charge of public discussion and has no right to dictate the discourse of those who may wish to learn or use the events which occurred on Mount Langley as a lesson. It has already been published in the papers and people are free to discuss it if they like. I was respectful of the victim. As I stated, if his friend wanted people to base their discussions on additional details, then he is free to share them. But you cannot tell people to simply quit talking, nor does name calling improve your postion...
. . .

Agree!
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Re: Langley death

Postby mrchad9 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:23 pm

MoapaPk wrote:I've become safer over the years from consideration of past mistakes; mine and others'. Mark's experiences made me more cautious, and his frank reporting was helpful to me. Certainly has influenced what I carry. I've never had to deal with an unplanned bivy, but it might be good to have the experience, to know what to expect in a very real way. A good bivy might be preferable to descending an icy pass in a dark storm.

We are all trying to build up that database in our brains, full of ways to deal with contingencies.

I agree, and that event influenced me as I began more challenging outings, but unfortunately I do not think those experiences were very helpful to him as evidenced by the numerous events he has been involved in since then.
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Re: Langley death

Postby PellucidWombat » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:53 pm

MoapaPk wrote:Oooo-kay, I didn't quite plan for the thread to turn out this way.


Just to make sure my intent is correctly heard, there is nothing wrong with speculating and trying to learn from a situation, and I think it is a good and healthy thing to do, but to press on with speculation on an event that has had very few details released, and despite a request from those personally involved (in fact mocking and dismissing it), is what makes Chad an ass. I think it is reasonable to hold off in respect of the message you've passed along until more information has been released.

And Chad's last vague comment regarding my climbing history makes him an ill-informed and ignorant ass and apparently he needs to fill me in on my climbing history since Mt Shasta. He should go and formulate his conspiracy theories with Eric Willhite. They're on the same illogical and demented mental plane.
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Re: Langley death

Postby mrchad9 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:19 pm

Yeah... there is noting wrong with speculating and trying to learn, unless you go ahead and do it... LOL.

How many unplanned bivys above 13,000 feet and SARs in the two years following your Shasta trip did you have?

BTW- that isn't a vague comment. Simple question you do not want others to know the answer to or the details around them.

PellucidWombat wrote:And Chad's last vague comment regarding my climbing history makes him an ill-informed and ignorant ass and apparently he needs to fill me in on my climbing history since Mt Shasta. He should go and formulate his conspiracy theories with Eric Willhite. They're on the same illogical and demented mental plane.

Mark Thomas, what I asked was for you to go ahead and fill us in... about how you press on pushing yourself and your team into dangerous situations. You have been involved in SARs within 2 years of pushing Tom into dangerous conditions that ended up deadly. How many unplanned bivies did you have in that short time? Several that I know about- doing the exact same thing that led to a tragic event beforehand. And you have tried to push others into dangerous situations on other occasions, but I and sure that it was never YOUR mistake.

YOU never learned anything because it was never YOUR fault. YOU just happen to always be there ready to blame something else, never taking any responsibility whatsoever for YOUR decision making. And anyone more competent is an ass for pointing it out right? How is it most climbers can go their entire life not being on the receiving end of a SAR, but YOU are involved in them all the time? That is why you don't like others talking about YOUR climbing history. That is why you didn't answer my questions. It is always unavoidable right? It is always someone else's fault right?
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Re: Langley death

Postby Kahuna » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:34 pm

Just got off the phone sharing my condolences with the widow of Jack Pressman (my client that officially died of what may just be the fastest recorded time induced HAPE incident. 1 hour and 56 minutes from observable symptoms to official calling of death after 1 hour and 22 minutes of administering CPR) who collapsed and passed away a little under a mile down from where this victim was found on Weds, three years ago. He died the same day in July 2009.

I know from personal experience with dealing directly with the loved ones from a tragedy such as this, respect is due to them and friends until the official report is made public from both the coroner and local investigating authorities.
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Re: Langley death

Postby Tonka » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:09 am

I was in Lone Pine this week and the information from a SAR member and the posters hung in windows didn't make him out to be experienced. Sounds like he was. One guy in our party (doing Whitney) had met him on Shasta a couple weeks earlier and the article said he was constantly out. Not sure how much I believe the media either though. Sounds like it could be bad luck, a bad decision or most likely some of both.

RIP
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