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Layering and down jackets

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Layering and down jackets

Postby Justin19 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:38 am

I have read in a couple comments of people using two lighter weight thinner down jackets and layering them opposed to one heavier down jacket. Has anyone done this? what is the movement like? I heard someone doing this while climbing Aconcagua.

Also I am in the market for a down Jacket. I would prefer a double zip, and definietely want a hood. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have being eyeing the Marmot Ama dablam, but am also interested in the MH Synchronicity Jacket, and Arcteryx Fission SV Jacket. Does anyone have any of these? would you reccomend them? I have always liked Arcteryx though I am unsure if I want to spend so much on a jacket that is just as good as it's compeditors besides looking much better. For the time being I would be using them in Alberta/BC alpine climbing and ice climbing. Though I am hoping it will work well in the future for Denali and Aconcagua.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby WouterB » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:29 am

I have two. One TNF Himalayan jacket, which is really too warm for most trips and a lighter TNF jacket without a hood. Both have their uses. I probably wouldn't go for layering with down jackets.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby bearbreeder » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:56 pm

i layer down and syn jackets all the time

current setup is a
- MB ex light + dead bird atom lt for milder temps
- MB ex light + OR Chaos for cooler temps
- Westcomb Kokanee + OR Chaos for effing cold temps

layering pros
- more flexible setup as you can adjust yr insulation to yr requirements at the time
- you can use most of these jackets around town or in other seasons instead of buying one big effing parka
- better moisture management if you use a down inner and a synth outer
- if yr bivying you can skip the bivy pants and split up the insulation between the top and bottom for extra warmth

layering cons
- weights more than a single parka
- you need to deal with 2 jackets instead of 1
- more expensive usually to buy 2 jackets vs 1

i have the fission AR, and honestly wouldnt bother with the fission line if i had to do it again ... the outer shell should not be WPB as this inhibits vapor transmission and drying of the jacket ... dead bird is overpriced, overated and made over there IMO ...

if i had to do it all over, id just get a MB ex light and a patagucci DAS
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby seano » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:02 pm

Justin19 wrote:I have being eyeing the Marmot Ama dablam,

I got one of these recently, and have been satisfied so far -- it's super-light, warm, and packs down well. I bought it large enough to wear over a softshell as a belay jacket, or for resort skiing and other inactive winter activities. Of course, I haven't owned any of the others, so I have no point of comparison.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby Brad Marshall » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:03 pm

Justin19 wrote:I have read in a couple comments of people using two lighter weight thinner down jackets and layering them opposed to one heavier down jacket. Has anyone done this? what is the movement like? I heard someone doing this while climbing Aconcagua.

Also I am in the market for a down Jacket. I would prefer a double zip, and definietely want a hood. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have being eyeing the Marmot Ama dablam, but am also interested in the MH Synchronicity Jacket, and Arcteryx Fission SV Jacket. Does anyone have any of these? would you reccomend them? I have always liked Arcteryx though I am unsure if I want to spend so much on a jacket that is just as good as it's compeditors besides looking much better. For the time being I would be using them in Alberta/BC alpine climbing and ice climbing. Though I am hoping it will work well in the future for Denali and Aconcagua.


From my experience I can't see the need to take more than one puffy jacket to Aconcagua or Denali. I usually only take a synthetic belay parka to Aconcagua which I've also used on Denali to 17,000'. Your base and mid-layers underneath should provide all the warmth you require. Instead of down have you considered a synthetic belay jacket for alpine and ice out west which may have a more durable shell? I sliced through the thin shell of a nice lightweight down MHW Phantom jacket the first time I wore it and have never done that to the heavier shell of my EMS belay parka.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby ExcitableBoy » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:34 pm

I brought two puffy jackets to Denali, one light and one heavy. I could not wear them together because the combined bulk made movement too difficult and it simply was not cold enough to need them both, even at -30 F. I sold the lighter weight puffy and on really cold trips I use a high lofting light weight fleece jacket (i.e. Patagonia R2, MH Monkey Man) under my belay jacket (a Wild Things Primaloft Insulated Belay Jacket). If I were to get a down coat I would look at the Patagonia Fitz Roy Hooded jacket.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby ScottyP » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:50 pm

I too brought two to Denali although one was a micro puff. I never did wear them at the same time. I use:

For my Puffy: http://www.altrec.com/marmot/mens-green ... 1b2166becc

For the lighter puffy that I lived in! : http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Hooded- ... lt,pd.html

Like Brad though, the warmth for me was the base layers with the light puffy on top.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby Justin19 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:54 am

I figured 2 insulated jackets at the same time on Denali or Aconcagua was overkill.

I have decided to drop Arcteryx as a option just way to expensive. I was thinking of having a hardshell over the down jacket to help protect it from any moisture, and give the down Jacket a bit more protection from being ripped.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby Hotoven » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:06 am

Justin19 wrote: I was thinking of having a hardshell over the down jacket to help protect it from any moisture, and give the down Jacket a bit more protection from being ripped.


If its cold enough to wear a down, there's not going to be much moisture around. The most moisture will be coming from your body. (that's when you need good wicking base layers) As far as protection, most down jackets are getting better and more durable as fabric technology increases. You won't need much protection unless your bushwhacking. (If your bushwhacking you should be warm enough and not even need to wear a down jacket.)
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby SJ » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:32 pm

ExcitableBoy wrote:I brought two puffy jackets to Denali, one light and one heavy. I could not wear them together because the combined bulk made movement too difficult and it simply was not cold enough to need them both, even at -30 F. I sold the lighter weight puffy and on really cold trips I use a high lofting light weight fleece jacket (i.e. Patagonia R2, MH Monkey Man) under my belay jacket (a Wild Things Primaloft Insulated Belay Jacket). If I were to get a down coat I would look at the Patagonia Fitz Roy Hooded jacket.


How small does the Wild Things Belay jacket pack down? I found a review online that says it weighs 2lbs, is this accurate? The Wild Things website is under construction, as usual.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby ExcitableBoy » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:21 pm

SJ wrote:
ExcitableBoy wrote:I brought two puffy jackets to Denali, one light and one heavy. I could not wear them together because the combined bulk made movement too difficult and it simply was not cold enough to need them both, even at -30 F. I sold the lighter weight puffy and on really cold trips I use a high lofting light weight fleece jacket (i.e. Patagonia R2, MH Monkey Man) under my belay jacket (a Wild Things Primaloft Insulated Belay Jacket). If I were to get a down coat I would look at the Patagonia Fitz Roy Hooded jacket.


How small does the Wild Things Belay jacket pack down? I found a review online that says it weighs 2lbs, is this accurate? The Wild Things website is under construction, as usual.

I just weighed my WT Belay Jacket (size medium): 1 lb 13 3/4 oz. It packs into a stuff sack about 8" X 6".
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby sneakyracer » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:06 am

Hi, I would not layer 2 down jackets, too much thickness to move well. What I might layer is a thin primaloft jacket under a larger down jacket during stops. A Patagonia Nano puff is a good jacket to layer under a shell or down parka.
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby Deb » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:40 am

If you HAVE to layer down, go with Patagonia Down Sweater and Western Mountaineering Flash Jacket. Both extremely packable and light.
Not sure I understand why so many are tooting about synthetic next to the skin. DANG! Get some good wool! Icebreaker or Smartwool do an awesome job keeping the warmth in and wicking away the sweat. Synethics STINK!
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Re: Layering and down jackets

Postby Alpinisto » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:17 am

ExcitableBoy wrote:
SJ wrote:How small does the Wild Things Belay jacket pack down? I found a review online that says it weighs 2lbs, is this accurate? The Wild Things website is under construction, as usual.

I just weighed my WT Belay Jacket (size medium): 1 lb 13 3/4 oz. It packs into a stuff sack about 8" X 6".


My WT Belay Jacket (size large) weighs-in at 2 lb, 2 oz. I'm able to pack it down in a stuff sack to about 11" x 6". A couple photos, showing the stuffed jacket compared to the standard climbing size comparison: the Nalgene.

Image

Image


If I'm ice cragging, or don't feel like carrying a leader pack, I'll clip the stuff sack to the haul loop on the back of my harness and have a nice toasty hooded jacket to throw on at the belay.
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