What's the current state-of-the-art practice for technical ice tools on alpine routes? I've heard of people using leashless tools for alpine routes, but wouldn't the pinky guard required for going leashless interfere with the tool's ability to be used in dagger and cane positions?

I'd be far more concerned at losing the tool/s in a wilderness Alpine situ than the dagger scenario you ask about.

See this video.

The Chief wrote:I'd be far more concerned at losing the tool/s in a wilderness Alpine situ than the dagger scenario you ask about.

You mean like Phillipe Pellet did on the FA of Infinite Patience on Robson? (both tools in fact!)
This is the main reason I use a tool tether like the BD Spinner in situations where losing a tool would be.... inconvenient.

Regarding OPs question, leashless tools like the newer BD Cobra and Viper have a pretty good spike on the bottom for use on ice or neve'. If the snow is soft enough for serious plunging, the "pinky hook" usually isn't a problem (usually, not always).

100% agree on the tether gig!

Been doing this for over 5 years myself when leashless.

Still have my Grivel NA set up that I posted three years ago simliar to the current Grivel Italia gig..



As Steve indicates in the vid, I too had a set of Grivel slider pinky hooks on my set of older set "Alp Wing Lights".

Edit: Addition

I just got a pair of Grivel Matrix Lights w/ sliding pinky rests - solves the plunging/pinkie rest problem!

I like the new BD tether rig. May have to break my anti-BD vow and get a set for my Venom's!!!

brenta wrote:See this video.

Definitely worth watching.

I love my cobras, with the leashes on it's quick to disconnect if I choose to not want them for some moves and not impeed my stride, then quickly reconnect them when needed.. Great tools

TacoDelRio wrote:

The Chief wrote:I like the new BD tether rig. May have to break my anti-BD vow and get a set for my Venom's!!!

Not gonna just slap a swivel on the Grivel unit?

They are all tattered and pretty much blown. Need to replace em. Looks like the BDs are the ticket. Will check to ensure they are made here in the U.S. before I get em. If they aint, no deal.

I'm thinking of acquiring a pair of leashless tools this winter, and the dilemma is whether to get a pair of radically curved tools like the Nomic or Fusion that would be useless for alpine but suitable for mixed climbing (that I want to start getting into), or something like the Quark or Cobra...

knoback wrote: The only tool I've ever dropped had a leash on it. Set it to place a screw, bumped the spike and sent it two pitches down.

Let us all remember that all it takes is that one time on the longest route ya have ever been on.

That one time will that you never counted on happening.

That one time ya needed it/them the most.

The Chief wrote:I'd be far more concerned at losing the tool/s in a wilderness Alpine situ than the dagger scenario you ask about.

Ditto. I have a set of alpine tools with leashes (Simond Piranha) and a set of leashless (Simond Coyote) for short waterfall play stuff. Love 'em both for each specific application. I sure wouldn't bring the latter into a wilderness situation.

I've used I think they're called the anroid leashes with my bd venoms and they were a real pain in the ass. They are the ones you clip in and out of and I found them very inconveinient. I don't lead much but just following and trying to remove gear was a real hassel. Matter of fact the only time I used them in an alpine setting I dropped one of them on pitch two of a twelve pitch route. Have'nt used them since, I guess I just figured the main thing is don't f/@#king drop em.

Gabarrou for Grivel. It's obviously promotional material, but it has some interesting stuff, in particular, concerning the current thread, at 3:55.