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Longest lines of sight photographed.......

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Postby MoapaPk » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:38 am

brendon wrote:Have you turned on the visibility cloak?

http://home.wxs.nl/~mbedaff/cloaking.htm
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Postby Dmitry Pruss » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:53 am

Scott wrote:check out MOKBA's photo looking east from Lookout Peak:

http://www.summitpost.org/image/413768/ ... ut-pk.html

Coodinates are 40.8349 and -111.7176

Try to find Gilbert Peak (almost due east, but not quite and would be the most distant peak labeled in the photo) from Lookout Peak on the heywhatsthat site.


Well, I tell you what I have done, and I think heywhatsthat is doing better. I marked XY position of Gilbert on the image and then marked the mountain which was there & looked sort of right. However it appears that it was Windy Ridge, judging from the Visibility Cloak map of their. Gilbert might have been one pixels too low behind - or possibly one pixel higher but not high enough to be resolved as an independent spot according to their tech specs (which I haven't studied). The easiest resolution of the issue would be to recalc xy values for both Gilbert and Windy, and to see which one is higher. I have a recollection that I have actually done just that, but no time to dig it out now. Off to the Caribbean in the morning :)
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Postby Iron Hiker » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:22 am

That's pretty good. I was actually making my own investigation at the same time and I suggest that you doublecheck a few of the labeled peaks around Tokewanna. According to Heywhatsthat and the Google Earth 3D, much of the ridge going south of Tokewanna is on the horizon line until Lamotte shows up; thus Beulah and Cathedral would not be the "highest" peaks shown in the pic. Still a bit confusing because the snow makes things harder to outline, but I think I have a good case here.

It is possible that light refraction or some other cause could make Gilbert visible. That being said, only the extreme top would show. I knew once I looked at the 3D that the whole mountain labeled as such in the pic was definitely not Gilbert (too close, and wrong shape........)

Scott, I have looked at panos from the Grand and Tokewanna and neither shows up in the view from the other on the visibility cloak. I really do not think an Uintas-Teton view is possible. Look up the Grand on the heywhatsthat list (the one with elevation 13771) and turn on the visibility cloak, then use the link to Google Earth and make sure the visibility cloak boundaries are turned on as well. The boundary stops in the Wyoming Range on a ridge above 10,000 feet. If that ridge wasn't there we might have a good case, but.......

The entire Wind Rivers are visible from most Uinta Peaks. Heywhatsthat only "marks" certain summits, probably because to list every peak would clutter it up unbearably. Just turn on the visibility cloak and the whole crest will be "reddened." :D

That was fun checking the photo out! Good way to challenge the mind and geography knowledge.
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Postby Dmitry Pruss » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:45 am

Gilbert in spring looks pretty much like it, a white trapezoid with slightly higher left corner and a dark ridge descending further left. The following shot is from WNW in late May:
Image
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Postby Day Hiker » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:36 am

Scott wrote:If you can't see the Tetons from the Uintas, I wonder what they could be? :?: You can definately see above the Wyoming Range.

Next, I can check views to Wyoming from the Uintas (Kings Peak?). Viewing peaks in the Wind River Range looks more likely than the Tetons, but the Wind Rivers' distance from Kings would not be record-setting unless I can get something on the north end.

So I need to know if Kings Peak a good viewpoint to use. Or are there other possibilities that should be checked?


No, Kings wouldn't be a good one to try unless you want the Wind Rivers. Try something like Lamotte Peak. Lamotte is almost straight south of the Tetons. Kings Peak is more easterly. Also, try it in the opposite direction.


I analyzed the view from Kings, and Grand Teton is substantially blocked by closer topography. The specific point in line with The Grand is on the ridge south of Wyoming Peak. And Wyoming Peak itself makes up part of the horizon just to the right of that.

I can check the view in the opposite direction next, as it has the possibility of revealing a point in the Uintas that peeks through. And I can also check the view from Lamotte, since it's worth a try.

With long distances and many data points, the images take over an hour to generate. (Five-year-old computer with 3.2GHz clock-speed Pentium 4. I'm unemployed, so I ain't buying any new computers soon. But I'm not too proud to take donations!)

I like to run the topo program while I am sleeping anyway. It makes me feel like I am getting more done that way.

After the image is generated, it only takes a minute or so to automatically generate the set of lat/lon points that make up the horizon. Of course writing the code took some time. But now that it is written, it can perform its task many times and "pay for" itself.
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Postby desainme » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:23 pm

I checked out Wind River Pk in Hey What's that and Gilbert and several other Uintas were in the visibility cloak but not Kings because it's a bit south of the Uinta ridge line.
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Postby Day Hiker » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:26 pm

Using my program, I checked north from Kings Peak and south from Grand Teton. No part of the Tetons was visible from Kings, and no part of the Uintas was visible from GT. From Kings, I checked an arc from bearings 348.0 to 360.0. From Grand Teton, I checked an arc from bearings 171.2 to 183.2.

In both directions, the geographic feature blocking the view was the Wyoming and Salt River Ranges, about half-way between the two others. In many cases, both directions were blocked by the very same ridgeline. Red Top Mountain is one example: http://www.mytopo.com/maps.cfm?mtlat=42.65555&mtlon=-110.84828

In other words, one could see both Grand Teton and Kings Peak from Red Top Mountain -- both at the same time if one is a prey animal, but only one at a time for humans and other predators.
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Postby nartreb » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:30 pm

only one at a time for humans and other predators.


Humans can use mirrors.
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Topic: Longest lines of sight photographed.......

Postby Chipps » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:35 pm

Ciao,
I just came across your interesting discussion this morning about longest lines of sight photographed and I'd like to share with you our progress in this area. :D

Our research project is called 'Marmota' ( http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/ ) and one of it's goals is to understand the content of photos taken outdoors. Take a look at our gallery ( http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/gallery ) or blog ( http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/blog/mosaic/ ) for a few examples of photos that our Marmota system has produced.

Anyway, on the subject of longest line of sight we have searched for 'real' photos that could contain record views and then Marmota verified their potential; so far we have quite a few with distances over 200km ( http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/blog/tag/200/ ), but only one that clearly shows mountains over 300km ( http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/blog/tag/300/ )

We've also studied theoretical situations originally pointed out by Jonathan de Ferranti ( http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/blog/2008/10/ ... an-update/ ) although I guess that finding an actual photo of this is almost impossible.

We also have a Flickr Group dedicated to labelled photos ( http://www.flickr.com/groups/labelledmountains/ ) and we are happy to label images for anyone that knows the location and thinks that it might contain a record view. 8)

Great topic,
Chipps
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Postby Day Hiker » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:18 pm

Yes, a view over the Adriatic could be quite far. I checked some views over ocean in Hawaii, northwest toward the other Hawaiian islands from Mauna Kea. One should be able to see as far as the west side of Oahu, about 202 miles away. But I don't think Kauai is visible, with its high point at just over 300 miles away.

Chipps wrote:We've also studied theoretical situations originally pointed out by Jonathan de Ferranti ( http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/blog/2008/10/ ... an-update/ ) although I guess that finding an actual photo of this is almost impossible.


In that image, what does the flat green area represent? I'm not familiar with the geography there, but I looked at that location based on the coordinates, and the view is north-northeast over land, not ocean, correct? Is the land really flat like that?

I am able to get elevation data for the entire planet, online from USGS. But the data outside the U.S. are 3-arc-second, which is not very high resolution. They are SRTM data, and there are quite a few holes, often in inconvenient places, such as the south slopes near the summit of Aconcagua.

Do you have a better source for global elevation data, for places like Italy and BiH?
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Postby Iron Hiker » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:54 am

Chipps,

Thanks for tuning in! I actually discovered Marmota about a month ago, and I definitely was impressed by its potential. It's good to know efforts are being made towards making this kind of technology more common, so that one day the public may have access to it and be able to figure out exactly what they can see from anywhere they are at! By all means I encourage others to take a look at that site.

This topic has slowed down, but now that it's back up on the top let's see what else we can get. I'd still be interested if anyone has any good input on the view possibilities that I outlined in my earlier posts. Here in the San Diego area I've already had a couple 100-mile views, the record so far was from Cuyamaca Peak to Santa Catalina Island, 110 miles away. When there's no smog it's definitely amazing how far you can see in the dryness of the air......
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Postby Chipps » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:54 pm

Thanks for your interest in Marmota :) It's great being able to work on a research topic that is also a personal passion. Keep checking out our blog from time to time http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/blog/ too. We labeled the legendary Mt Whitney image yesterday http://tev.fbk.eu/marmota/blog/2009/04/ ... -mountain/ . Although I know that this image has been well covered, it was nice to try Marmota on a US image for a change.
Regards, Chipps
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Postby Iron Hiker » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:23 pm

Thanks! Perhaps you can check out the photo from Brunswick to Rainier that I linked to at the very start of this thread? I estimated the distance to be about 195 miles, so just a bit longer than the Whitney-San Gorgonio view. It's a great shot.......
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Postby Day Hiker » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:27 am

I used my program to generate a Whitney to San Gorgonio view. It looks like the ridge to San Gorgonio's southeast is visible as well, and this ridge is even farther away. The visible part is approximately from elevation 10200 to 10800 feet, and it's just over a mile southeast of the summit. Of course this ridge does not stand out on its own in the photo, but it is visible; it is the sloping ridgeline just to the left of San Gorgonio.

My calculations give the (linear) distances from Whitney as follows:
San Gorgonio summit (lat/lon= 34.09919, -116.82492): 190.3 miles (306.3 km)
Farthest visible point, on ridge southeast of San G (lat/lon= 34.09093, -116.80408): 191.3 miles (307.9 km)
For Whitney's lat/lon, I have 36.57862, -118.29198. Been there 19 times, but sadly not since 15 July 2006.

When I have more time later, I can post the image I generated to get the view information.

Iron Hiker, I can use my program to check the Brunswick to Rainier view, but I need to download some more Northwest data first. And I need to get some Canadian data, which might not have as high resolution. I will have to see what is available from USGS. It might be only that 3-arc-second SRTM crap.
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Postby Day Hiker » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:59 am

Day Hiker wrote:Iron Hiker, I can use my program to check the Brunswick to Rainier view, but I need to download some more Northwest data first. And I need to get some Canadian data, which might not have as high resolution. I will have to see what is available from USGS. It might be only that 3-arc-second SRTM crap.


Before I can do anything with Brunswick, I will need correct coordinates for it. The SP page shows the lat/lon as "49.29000°N / 123.11°W." This is obviously incorrect because it is in the ocean (Burrard Inlet), a couple of km north of downtown Vancouver. If I guess at the mistake and assume the 29 and 11 were supposed to be minutes and not decimal degrees, the coordinates are then 49.48333, -123.18333, which is still not at the summit of a mountain. It's close to some peaks, but I don't know which one it is.

Edit: I found it on MyTopo: Lat/lon= 49.48739, -123.19755.
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