coldfoot wrote:The hikearizona.com ratings seem to be mostly difficulty based on strenuousness of hike (length, elevation etc.) and aren't indicative of technical nature. Some hikes I know that are rated 4 or 5 in "difficulty" are long and hard, but Class 1 all the way on paths easy to follow.

Isn't that what I said, but you got one thing wrong, if it is "rated" a number, that is hiker consensus, where as the difficulty is listed as such by the author.

Arizona is a big state. I don't think you can easily plan a short trip from a relatively unorganized site like hikearizona. This is a time when you could use a real paper guidebook that has seen the touch of an editor, like the Hiking Arizona book, or pick an area and get a book for that location. It doesn't have to be the perfect book, just one that names a few good outings in your desired place. Have fun.

Actually, hikearizona is specifically designed to allow people to put together hikes, or climbs when in the database, to search by area, and to find trail-heads on the maps that are there. Use the traildex or traildex map to find stuff. If you still think you need the opinion of a paper published author, by all means spend the money on a book, but hikearizona is well enough designed to allow you to plan a trip using it.

jhodlof wrote:

coldfoot wrote:The hikearizona.com ratings seem to be mostly difficulty based on strenuousness of hike (length, elevation etc.) and aren't indicative of technical nature. Some hikes I know that are rated 4 or 5 in "difficulty" are long and hard, but Class 1 all the way on paths easy to follow.

Isn't that what I said, but you got one thing wrong, if it is "rated" a number, that is hiker consensus, where as the difficulty is listed as such by the author.

Yes, I just wanted to add the direct comment that a 4 or 5 difficulty can be Class 1, since that's the grade the OP asked about.

I said "rated 4 or 5 in difficulty", I wasn't discussing the hiker consensus quality rating.

I know hikearizona.com has sub-categories by area and so on, but I still think it is too complex and detailed for someone on their first visit to Arizona, who hasn't expressed a desire for a specific type of trip and would probably be well served by hitting a few classic outings.

As far as paper books, I bought the Moon Publication, Arizona Travelers Handbook, when I was down there. It contains hikes and possible peaks, mostly the popular ones, with good brief directions. I like to read them while in my motel, you get advice on eats, what to see, history of the area, and some trivia tidbits.

You may wish to get a few large scale topos, I used to collect those in the 1 degree series. They show the peaks and geography, and then roads that wouldn't appear on say an AAA map. Or you can download maps for free should you be enabled to do so to your smart phone, perhaps, and scroll through them. Some apps to download also, I find many travel apps to give great info in a particular city or town.

There's lots of topographic features that you might be interested to know. You can see at a glance how the distances are, and whatever gain. I like where the contours come together and bunch up, that means vertical relief, which I seek out.

I made a loop road trip, from Tucson to Willcox, then up north by the Salt River, an obscure feature, to I-40 and Flagstaff. You pass by the Meteor Crater (limited hours), and then you can head south again hitting Sedona, and then back to Phoenix.

1000Pks wrote:Meteor Crater (limited hours)

jdzaharia wrote:In late April, my wife and I will be in Arizona for 4 to 5 days.

I can't guess at your time zone because ND is split between two. But don't forget, outside of Navajo land, Arizona does NOT observe the Daylight Saving hocus-pocus, so they'll be on the same time zone as CA and NV and one hour behind UT and NM. So, if you didn't yet switch your clock when entering AZ, you'll have a bonus hour of abierto in the evening at the crater. That's the way it worked for me one time, anyway.

Day Hiker wrote:

1000Pks wrote:Meteor Crater (limited hours)

jdzaharia wrote:In late April, my wife and I will be in Arizona for 4 to 5 days.

I can't guess at your time zone because ND is split between two. But don't forget, outside of Navajo land, Arizona does NOT observe the Daylight Saving hocus-pocus, so they'll be on the same time zone as CA and NV and one hour behind UT and NM. So, if you didn't yet switch your clock when entering AZ, you'll have a bonus hour of abierto in the evening at the crater. That's the way it worked for me one time, anyway.

And it's only the official things on the Res that use Daylight Savings, the people do what they want. The Hopi don't use it, so if you go to Hopi-land you're back in the proper time.

jhodlof wrote:The pics from page one are taken from the new Red Rocks Sedona USFS visitor center on AZ Highway 179 just south of the V.O.C., or Village of Oak Creek. Bell Rock is the small bell shaped formation in the center of one of the pics, and Courthouse Butte is on the right of Bell. There is a Wendy's just up the road. I have had their Spicy Chicken, and it was good.

Thanks. Are you trying to facetiously elude to the touristy nature of that area?

jhodlof wrote:traildex map

Thanks for pointing that feature out.

coldfoot wrote:Yes, I just wanted to add the direct comment that a 4 or 5 difficulty can be Class 1, since that's the grade the OP asked about.

I appreciate the input, coldfoot.

I have found the weeding-out of info on Hike AZ to be somewhat tedious. But, very interesting, too.

1000Pks wrote:You may wish to get a few large scale topos

I have ordered the DeLorme map book for AZ, and also the National Geographic Trails Illustrated map for the Superstition and Four Peaks Wilderness areas. I'd like more maps, as I likely will not have the intermess available. I plan to order some USFS maps for Tonto and Coconino. I think they're 1:125k, right?

Day Hiker wrote:I can't guess at your time zone because ND is split between two. But don't forget, outside of Navajo land, Arizona does NOT observe the Daylight Saving

I'm in Central Time. So, Arizona is effectively in Pacific Time during the summer?

jdzaharia wrote:

Day Hiker wrote:I can't guess at your time zone because ND is split between two. But don't forget, outside of Navajo land, Arizona does NOT observe the Daylight Saving

I'm in Central Time. So, Arizona is effectively in Pacific Time during the summer?

Yes, basically. Because MST=PDT=GMT-7.

Nobody has mentioned much about the Superstition Mountains. Is it likely to be too hot there at the end of April?

How about Superstition Peak? http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock ... -peak.html It looks like there is a designated (possibly marked) trail from Carney Springs/Peralta Rd. But, how is the trail from the Heiroglyphic trailhead. I'm guessing it would be pretty decent for the first bit, but then it looks like off-trail route-finding after that. How far?

How would Superstition Peak compare to Flatiron or other hikes around the Superstitions?

Nobody has mentioned much about the Superstition Mountains. Is it likely to be too hot there at the end of April?

We did Superstition in 1995, about the first of April. It was fine then, maybe a bit warm. You may have to wait for a cooler day, or do it in the early morning.

How about Superstition Peak? http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock ... -peak.html It looks like there is a designated (possibly marked) trail from Carney Springs/Peralta Rd. But, how is the trail from the Heiroglyphic trailhead. I'm guessing it would be pretty decent for the first bit, but then it looks like off-trail route-finding after that. How far?

The trail to the rock pool is good, but then it's cross country navigation over talus and brush. Further up, you may find the use trail, somebody painted arrows and such on the rocks. Hopefully that is all now removed and for only ducks to show the way. It's some time, to hike it, plan for a half or three quarters day, or to get back by early afternoon. My cutoff is 85 degrees, too miserable hotter than that. Though I do go out at 100+ locally, I don't climb peaks, then.

Some words I've read a bunch, but never heard pronounced:

Coconino
Chiricahua
Piestewa

Can anybody help me with the phonetics?

jdzaharia wrote:Some words I've read a bunch, but never heard pronounced:

Coconino
Chiricahua
Piestewa

Can anybody help me with the phonetics?

Coconino= Ko Ko Nino
Chiricahua= Cheer E KaWa
Piestewa= Pie Est eWa or, the old name of Squaw Peak.
FYI:
Kaibab= KI Bab

Thank you.

It looks like I will not need any passes or permits to park at a trailhead or day hike in Tonto NF, including the Superstition Wilderness. But, it looks like I will need a Red Rocks Pass to park at trailheads near Sedona. Any other fees or passes I should be aware of? Different USFS lands seem to be very inconsistent.

As I read more about hiking and where I want to visit, the theme that keeps recurring is how difficult some of the hiking is. Is it unrealistic for a flatlander to fly from a place where it may well be 40F, to Phoenix and expect to go schlepping up Brown's Peak or Flatiron the next morning? If it's warm, is it unreasonable to hike up some of these features and be back down before the heat really kicks in? I've hiked several times in Zion, western North Dakota, and southeastern Colorado when it's been near 100F. Is AZ that much more brutal?


Is there still snow in the scree chute of Brown's Peak?

Any other fees or passes I should be aware of?

Last I was there, the Thomas Pt Trail was a privately run TH, with a separate fee. Then there is a AZ State Park, that took no other passes. That Oak Creek Canyon is a maze of jurisdictions, and you can pay three sets of fees to hike three trails, if that is your gist.

As I read more about hiking and where I want to visit, the theme that keeps recurring is how difficult some of the hiking is. Is it unrealistic for a flatlander to fly from a place where it may well be 40F, to Phoenix and expect to go schlepping up Brown's Peak or Flatiron the next morning? If it's warm, is it unreasonable to hike up some of these features and be back down before the heat really kicks in? I've hiked several times in Zion, western North Dakota, and southeastern Colorado when it's been near 100F. Is AZ that much more brutal?

You know yourself best. I used to do this all of the time, and can climb to 13,000 feet from weeks at sea level, and have no problem. We'd go hiking in the Desert to then snow camp the next weekend, no problem. Then I have decades of experience.

I know we can start at 90 degrees with full packs, hike up 4,000' gain, and then into chill winds and weather up to 14,000 feet elevation, and have fun all of the way. And to do it again and again, weekend after weekend.

Most other hikers may decide it's too cold at under 70 degrees, and promptly vote to go for beer and pizza. Or too hot at 80 degrees, to do exactly the same. If it can't be hiked comfortably in t shirt and shorts, it's a big no-go for most. And for them, no carrying of water!

AZ is a dry heat, and if you detest that, don't go there. I well know what I like, and can consult the weather forecasts. I have plenty of different gear, and can dress for the weather. I usually get an early start in summer, and can seek out higher elevation hikes if it is to be warm. Or, I can wait till the sun goes down and it gets cooler. Locally, it gets to over 100, but I can wait and go out when the thermometer dips to under 90. You just stay quenched and hydrated, and I can insulate my ice cold water so it goes down really well when I need it.

I was going to head down there, but I hear the high peaks got 180% of the normal snowpack, so I have to wait to another year. Just how it goes.

Dry heat always seems easier to me. I'd take 95F at 10% humidity over 80F at 60% any day. Maybe I'm all wet.

Speaking of being all wet, is there likely to be afternoon thunderstorms at the end of this month?