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New peak climbed in the Annapurna

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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Vitaliy M. » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:17 am

attimount wrote:
Vitaliy M. wrote:Title of this thread is misleading. This peak remains un-climbed, they did not summit. It is a new line on an un-climbed peak.

Do you really think that they could not make that final 1m (3ft) to reach the thru summit. Think logically before making such an affirmation.


I am sure they could have made it to the top, of course. But, it doesn't make a difference if you turn around 1, 12, or 300M from the top. If you do not stand on top, you have not summited. Exactly why Alpinist called it "Summitless FA in Annapurna Sanctuary." So yes, peak is still un-climbed, even if it was by choice.
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby mrchad9 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:03 am

I think it a bit unreasonable for someone to claim I couldn't make it up the short walk to Mount Sutro in San Francisco... but I haven't done it.

I don't think ability to climb a peak is a substitute for having climbed it.
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Damien Gildea » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:51 am

Vitaliy M. wrote:But, it doesn't make a difference if you turn around 1, 12, or 300M from the top.So yes, peak is still un-climbed, even if it was by choice.


Bullshit.

So Brown, Band etc in 1955 did not make the first ascent? Wow Vitaly, good on you for re-writing climbing history! How's that working out for you?

If you think that every climber in the history of Himalayan climbing has put their feet on the absolute tippy top of every single summit ever claimed then you're delusional. They haven't, and anyone who knows anything of Himalayan climbing, particularly from experience, knows that.

There is a big difference in 1m, out of cultural respect, or 12m, for whatever reason, and of course 300m is completely different and a silly comparison.

Cosmin and Cristina climbed the mountain. No ifs, no buts, no contest. Calling it 'summitless' is not only clunky writing, it confuses issues from other contexts and simply misunderstands climbing, particularly Himalayan climbing. That climb deserved a better write-up than what Alpinist.com gave it.
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Scott » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:29 pm

Since it was culturally insensitive for them to stand on the summit, I have much more respect for them not doing so than I would if they had. Same with the ascents of Kanchenjunga (for several decades after the first ascent, no one did out of respect). I have less respect for the climbers that stepped on the summit, even when they were asked not to.
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby ncst » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:45 pm

Does anybody know why, according to local culture, it is not okay to stand on the actual summit, but it is ok to stand 1 5 10 or more metres below it? I thought their gods occupied the whole peak not just the square metre on top. Just curious... ! :)
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Burchey » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:37 pm

What I find interesting, is the same guise that typically sh*t on those that practice christianity or some other played-out mainstream religion, are the first to give lip service to some other religion or practice because it's hip or in.

Big Guy in the sky? That's crazy!

Big Guy in the mountain? Sign me up, but don't stand on top!

Morons. String up those prayer flags.
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Kiefer » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:55 pm

I know technicalities will always exist especially for the uber-geeks. :ugeek:
But hell, like Surgent said, why quibble? It's one freaking meter (3.2 feet). The damn peak is climbed!!

If anything, and I'm not religious, I have to tip my hat at Cosmin. Job well done for the climb but having the tact
to not take two extra steps out of respect when no one is looking, well, VERY nice sir.

An awesome & respectful accomplishment. 8)

By the way, one can climb Machupachare? I'd like to climb that more than Everest or Lhotse!
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Vitaliy M. » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:34 pm

Damien Gildea wrote:Bullshit.

So Brown, Band etc in 1955 did not make the first ascent? Wow Vitaly, good on you for re-writing climbing history! How's that working out for you?

If you think that every climber in the history of Himalayan climbing has put their feet on the absolute tippy top of every single summit ever claimed then you're delusional. They haven't, and anyone who knows anything of Himalayan climbing, particularly from experience, knows that.



For me climbing is a personal thing and I do not really care about history of first ascents in Himalayas, or who received a summit certificate. Point of my original post was simply to point out that title of this thread is misleading. Climbers themselves put up a great looking route and obviously accomplished what they wanted to accomplish.

However, if you do not stand on the summit itself by choice (even when it is 1 M away) and make a point in your report that you did not summit the peak out of respect to local traditions, than don’t claim you have summited! It is what it is, and if you accomplished what you wanted to accomplish than why be so defensive? :?
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Damien Gildea » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:20 am

Burchey wrote:... to give lip service to some other religion or practice because it's hip or in.

Big Guy in the sky? That's crazy! Big Guy in the mountain? Sign me up, but don't stand on top!

Morons. String up those prayer flags.


Hey, careful, I got in big trouble for criticising those who string up prayer flags at home in the US! :)

Though I actually agree with you, in theory, about 'respect' for religion, it often comes down to a respect for the wishes of those with whom you share the place. Despite how it may sometimes seem, I don't make a habit of deliberately going out of my way to offend people, and would prize a good and friendly expedition vibe over the need to put my crampon on that very last metre. Climbing is a leisure activity for those who can afford it. Just how much am I willing to offend a host just so I can have fun over at his place?

I have a similar view for this issue which has cropped up again - climbing Uluru. I don't respect the 'religion', but I respect the culture of those people whose land the mountain is on. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-03/m ... ru/4728726
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Damien Gildea » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:23 am

Vitaliy M. wrote: If you do not stand on top, you have not summited.


Nobody stood on the summit of Nuptse this year, Vitaly, yet quite a few people claimed to have summited. How does that make you feel? :)

Alex Txikon wrote they were 30m from the true summit and some distance below it, as http://www.billibierling.com/2013/05/20/my-summit-success-on-nuptse/ confirms.
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Mountain Bandit » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:03 am

Damien Gildea wrote: I have a similar view for this issue which has cropped up again - climbing Uluru. I don't respect the 'religion', but I respect the culture of those people whose land the mountain is on. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-03/m ... ru/4728726


A bit off topic here but the Uluru thing is fairly different thing, contrary to what most people think. If Indigenous Australians really did want climbing banned, they would be able to force this quite easily. Fact is that the vast majority of the indigenous people including land owners and traditional elders are actually impartial to people climbing the rock. The tourism industry in the area has greatly benefited the local indigenous communities resulting in nearly doubling the life expectancy with great health initiatives, increasing literacy and numeracy with effective education programs and giving indigenous people employment where they can practice these skills and maintain their traditional beliefs and practices while teaching others (both fellow indigenous people and tourists). Most understand that this far outweighs the jaded views of a minority of indigenous people annoyed by white fellas roaming their land.

I spent 20 years of my life in Uluru's back yard, knowing and working with many of the Mutitjulu People (Uluru caretakers). People like this reporter Louise Maher visit Uluru a few times in their life and preach to the world their own false options while citing poor sources (yes - there are idiots in this world who say and wear stupid things).
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Damien Gildea » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:04 am

Mountain Bandit wrote:People like this reporter Louise Maher visit Uluru a few times in their life and preach to the world their own false options while citing poor sources (yes - there are idiots in this world who say and wear stupid things).


Yep, pretty much what I thought on reading it. Lightweight journalism.

I agree there is an important distinction between Uluru and the Himalayan issue, in that in the latter it is the actual locals complaining, whereas for Uluru it seems to be other non-locals complaining, unnecessarily, on the locals' 'behalf'.

To further confuse matters, in my opinion, based on experience, in parts of China the authorities have used 'spiritual reasons' for denying access to some areas, when in fact it's just that they don't want you going there. This is in addition to 'spiritual reasons' being the excuse for locals denying access to somewhere for yet other reasons - money, tribal differences, environmental impact etc.
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby WillP » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:30 am

Isn't it also considered bad form, in respect to the Maori culture, to stand right on the summit of Aspiring?
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby Vitaliy M. » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:35 am

Damien Gildea wrote:
Vitaliy M. wrote: If you do not stand on top, you have not summited.


Nobody stood on the summit of Nuptse this year, Vitaly, yet quite a few people claimed to have summited. How does that make you feel? :)

Alex Txikon wrote they were 30m from the true summit and some distance below it, as http://www.billibierling.com/2013/05/20/my-summit-success-on-nuptse/ confirms.



Finally, at around noon I put my foot on the summit. I had been going for about 11 hours and seeing Alex up there was a real joy. “Billi, I have been waiting for you for two hours to share this bottle of Coke with you,” he said with a big smile. Ellen Miller, the only one in our group who had been using supplementary oxygen had already been and gone. “I want to enjoy my climb up there and I am very worried about my hand and feet – and that’s why I opted to use gas,” she said prior to the climb. Using oxygen certainly warms up your feet and toes and it makes you faster.


Sounds like they have summited. Even though I did not read the whole report (no time). It is not my climb, so I feel indifferent about it. If they were 30 M bellow the summit, obviously they didn't climb the peak. Does it matter to me if they got a summit certificate or not? No. Do you think people can claim a summit if they were 30M bellow it?
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Re: New peak climbed in the Annapurna

Postby mrchad9 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:07 am

30M isn't even close to the summit. If it were, you wouldn't turn around there.
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