Bob Sihler wrote:

Steve1215 wrote:Goldenhopper, what you've done here is you've violated Bob Sihler's Off-Route Forum Rules that say you won't dredge up petty grudges from one Forum and drag them into another one. So what if I myself have violated the sacred "General Forum" with some blunt truths? At any rate, now I'm going to add some more to my Off-Route thread that GH refers to, while he violated TOS in the process. I request that GH be permanently banned!

Sorry, Steve, but we're going to have to let Goldenhopper stay this time. You see, ever since he posted those pictures of himself in Off-Route, female membership has spiked and the elves' PM box has been flooded with requests for his email address. We might have to create his own special forum to enable him to chat with the ladies so that they'll leave the other forums, and us, alone. So you're just going to have to endure his taunts for now.

twoshuzz wrote:It's not only the ladies asking for GHopp's e-mail addy !

goldenhopper wrote:I object to these personal attacks!

Twoshuzz, oh forget it, the story would send this thread directly to the dark side...

Macbeth wrote:To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Mr Leghorn wrote:Here's question that the thread hints at, are climbers only those who always climb 5.+ routes, or occasionally do, or have a few times, or never have and only do scramble or do walk-ups? Should a scrambler be ignored?

Mr Leghorn wrote:Should a scrambler be ignored?

sarah.simon wrote:
George Washington crosses the Deleware in the dead of winter...

...with no outboard motor![/i]

Indeed, history interests many of us.

TheOrglingLlama wrote:

Macbeth wrote:To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Steve1215 wrote:I consider scrambling (3rd-class rock?) to be actual "climbing." I think most people call it "non-technical climbing." And of course world-class alpinists spend lots of time "scrambling" un-roped over all sorts of terrain.

Walk-ups are not climbing; that's called hiking, or 2nd-class, right? Many people have told me they've "climbed" Mt. Whitney, so I ask them if they did the East Face or E. Buttress; and they tell me they walked up the trail.

Of course who you "ignore" is your business. I choose to ignore all climbers born after 1970! Wimps!--

Steve1215 wrote:I consider scrambling (3rd-class rock?) to be actual "climbing." I think most people call it "non-technical climbing." And of course world-class alpinists spend lots of time "scrambling" un-roped over all sorts of terrain.

Walk-ups are not climbing; that's called hiking, or 2nd-class, right? Many people have told me they've "climbed" Mt. Whitney, so I ask them if they did the East Face or E. Buttress; and they tell me they walked up the trail. That's the time that I then spit in their faces!

Arthur Digbee wrote:How many times do your hands have to touch the rock to make it 3rd class?

Bob Sihler wrote:

Arthur Digbee wrote:How many times do your hands have to touch the rock to make it 3rd class?

Interesting question. Many times, I have been on a Class 3 route and barely touched the rock at all with my hands. But I have seen others clinging as if their very lives depended on it.

No easy answer, and yet another can of worms. When I write a route description, though, I tend not to call the route Class 3 unless there is a sustained pitch of it that can't be easily bypassed or unless there are several sections of short Class 3 pitches. Otherwise, I'll refer to it as a hike with the possibility of an occasional Class 3 move.