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Personal attacks

Postby Buz Groshong » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:39 pm

I thought we got rid of personal attacks and those who make them.

See http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB2/viewto ... 8da31e62e1

When will this shit end. It detracts from the site.
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Postby Dave K » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:02 pm

It's P and P.

If it stays there and there aren't multiple avatars doing the attacks, we leave it alone. Life is too short to moderate P and P.
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Postby Dow Williams » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:41 pm

There are spineless cowards in the real world and PnP is nothing more than a reflection of that realistic percentage. If you try to moderate PnP than these, no doubt obese, hackers who spend 24/7 in front of their computer will find mischief in the main body of the site. It is best to give them their little own fiefdom, where they get a sense of false fulfillment, thus keeping the majority of the site related to real SP fundamentals, hiking, climbing whatever it might be, somewhat void of trash. I wish you could all see the beauty in this design and laugh at the dopes wasting their day away in the basement.
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Postby BeDrinkable » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:58 pm

This comes up every few years or so. I think it's relatively clear that PnP is a section of this site where anarchy rules. I also agree that it's a good pressure release valve. Folks can go there, vent if they want and keep the rest of the site clean. Those who don't need it mostly stay away. And for those who wish to discuss non-mountain issues without fear, well, moderated PnP was created for just that purpose.
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Postby rhyang » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:04 pm

When I was new to SP, I went on a trip with some other SP'ers .. to Round Top I think, back in Nov. '04. These folks had some advice for me :

1. SP forums are very addicting, and
2. Don't get involved in political discussions on P&P

Inability to exercise self-discipline is the downfall of many, it would seem. It is common to blame other people for your own problems.
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Postby Dave K » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:04 pm

Yes Dow, every house needs a toilet. 6 years ago before there was a toilet, people were pooping in every room. That's why P and P exists. If people are taking their childish fights elsewhere, then we'll intervene, as we've done in the past.

The fact is that a lot of people enjoy P and P dark, more than P and P light as a matter of fact and more than any other forum. Squishy, you seem to dislike P and P yet you keep going back, even though there is a moderated forum that would seem to be something you would like. Why?

Getting back to a point I said earlier: except for a few egregious rule violations, we're not going to be playground monitors. We're just not going to do it. We did it in the past before you were a member, and it was a major time suck, very unfun and ultimately, not worth it. If folks hate P and P, it's very easy to ignore.
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Postby MoapaPk » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:13 pm

If P&P goes away, then the terrorists will have already won.
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Postby Dave K » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:15 pm

MoapaPk wrote:If P&P goes away, then the terrorists will have already won.


Why do you hate America?
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Postby Buz Groshong » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:29 pm

Dave K wrote:

The fact is that a lot of people enjoy P and P dark, more than P and P light as a matter of fact and more than any other forum.


This is quite true. And many of us do like the free for all political discussions. It's just the personal attacks that I have a problem with. I have no problem with calling another poster an asshole during the course of a discussion, provided it is backed up with some sort of reasoning, but the straight out personal attacks are childish and offensive. The one good thing about the one I cited is that it is its own thread; at least it is not screwing up an otherwise interesting thread.
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Postby MoapaPk » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:33 pm

Trading of insults is fundamental to the American economy. We can fix this vital sector of SP with a simple $700 billion bailout.
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Postby BeDrinkable » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:59 pm

squishy wrote:Worst case scenario is that it spills out of this site and into real life, what then? SP shows up in the news after someone kills themselves or someone else...great idea...ever heard of myspace?

The people for whom this is a possibility have larger problems than whether or not PnP exists ...
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Postby drjohnso1182 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:00 pm

squishy wrote:People love P&P, it's the few people in there, which we do not enjoy...

If we target them and fought back we would be no better and just bring even more unneeded drivel to the site. Which is exactly what they feed off of and want from us, why don't we just give them a swift kick and be done with it? If there are no rules, then there's no rule saying we can't ban them. That's how anarchy works, social justice, if you act like a fool there's no one stopping the rest of us from doing something about it. Worst case scenario is that it spills out of this site and into real life, what then? SP shows up in the news after someone kills themselves or someone else...great idea...ever heard of myspace?


This seems like a pretty good troll, but no one's biting. Maybe the myspace comment was too over-the-top.
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Postby MoapaPk » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:58 pm

squishy wrote: Worst case scenario is that it spills out of this site and into real life, what then? SP shows up in the news after someone kills themselves or someone else...great idea...ever heard of myspace?


I'm warning you squishy, your remarks are sending me over the edge. I'm going to take a power drill, some bolts, a poop tube, toilet paper and ... and ...

OK OK, I was just being a smart-a*s. I see your concerns; but banning people from P&P seems like banning people from Hell.

I really don't think that P&P is that obvious to people who enter via the main SP web page. P&P doesn't show up on the list of new posts, and it is called the cesspool of SP (or something like that). I'd be happier if P&P didn't show up in google searches, but that level of protection seems too much for the meager php system.

Occasionally I stumble on other climbing sites, while searching for mountains and routes, or just the e-mails of local climbers. By and large, those sites tend to have far worse name-calling and insult erupting in every forum; I'd guess (per the analogy above), they don't have a clearly-marked toilet, so people poop in every room.
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Postby rhyang » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:29 pm

Supertopo is an example of what SP would be without P & P - a complete shithole.

There have been threads discussing this subject before. Inevitably someone gets their feelings hurt in P & P and then starts calling for changes, bannings, etc.

But most of us here are full-grown adults who probably were taught the old saying as kids, "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me". Get up, turn off your computer, and go for a walk. That's a pretty sure cure for what ails you.
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Postby BSPclimber » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:30 pm

I wasn't even aware of the existence of P & P for many months when I joined. And tbh, the only time i've ever been in there is from clicking a link from the regular forum, like in the first post of this topic. I think the setup is good...I think everyone knows what goes on in P & P and it is easily avoided if, like me, you don't care for that sort of thing. And the people in charge do act quickly and decisively if someone gets way out of line in the regular forum. Ask Mdwst-transplant...if he was still here, that is.
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