Hey all. I am looking for some advice on ropes for mountaineering and ice climbing. I currently have a single Beal 7.7mm 50m goldendry Ice Twin rope which my partner and I have successfully used for a two man ascent of Mt. Rainier. I am planning to get more into Ice climbing this winter (probably some top rope and some leading) in the north east, as well as some plans to do a climb up Mt. Shuksan and possibly Gannett Peak in the summer. I am debating on buying a 2nd beal 7.7mm 50m twin rope to use for ice climbing and for Shuksan in the event of rappelling. My other thought was to get a pair of larger half ropes or just use a single for some odd climbs.

What do you think? Does it make sense to just get a 2nd twin for like $120 and learn to climb with twins for ice, or should I expect to get other ropes and just keep the single twin for glacier travel? Thanks.

First off, I really dislike twin ropes for glacier travel. Did you try to prusik or ascend the rope before you took it to Rainier? How about hauling a partner on a Z x C system? They stretch much more than a beefy half rope so are harder to ascend and haul on. The weight savings for a 50 meter cord between a beefy half and a twin seem attractive, but when you or your partner are in a crevasse it will be of little consolation.

Now, should you buy a second twin for ice climbing? No. Twins are the worst of both worlds; nearly as heavy as doubles, just as or more tangle prone, no ability to clip independently, and higher impact forces than any single or double rope. For long, bolted alpine rock climbs, like they have in the eastern alps, this makes sense. For ice climbing where the protection is ALWAYS suspect, you want to impart as little force to the ice screws as possible, thus the popularity of Screamers and other load limiting runners. Half/double ropes make more sense than twins because of this.

There are many cords that can be used as half or twin ropes. These are still quite skinny and quite light, but give you the option to clip independently, reducing impact forces from as high as 10kn as twins to 6.5kn when clipped separately. These would be a much better than twin only ropes.

As for Shuskan, you can rappel the summit pyramid with a single 50 meter cord, or just down climb the entire thing. It is only 4th class or steep snow early season.

I personally would get half ropes for ice climbing and for glacier climbing. I personally really like 50 meter ropes for alpine climbing, but realize that many popular ice climbs are fixed for 60 meter rappels. Also, if you climb in three person parties, which I really like to do, a 8.5 -8.8 mm half rope will make your seconds feel warm and fuzzy. Having followed on a single twin, I will NEVER do it again.

I agree with EB here, but would add that you're fine for now with what you have. You can double up your current rope to lead short pitches, and neither peak requires rappels -- certainly not long ones -- or has non-trivial glacier travel by its standard route.

seano wrote:I agree with EB here

That may be the first time for that.

Thank you guys for the prompt and detailed responses. I was originally leaning towards the half ropes as you suggested but though perhaps I could save a few hundred bucks sticking with twins, but it seems that is not ideal. We did practice several rescue techniques extensively and take a private EMS class, but we didn't actually ascend that particular rope. We kept the full 50m since we only have a 2 man team and wanted enough coils to do either self rescue or a drop line 5:1 using the petzl crevasse rescue microtraxion and ti bloc.

What kind of half rope would you recommend? Also, you said you can rappel shuksan with a 50m. Is that doubling it up for a 25m length?

You also mention about lower impact forces on doubles. Is it true that that only applies when they're clipped independently?

jslade11 wrote: We kept the full 50m since we only have a 2 man team and wanted enough coils to do either self rescue or a drop line 5:1 using the petzl crevasse rescue microtraxion and ti bloc.

I also like a 50 meter rope for two to three man glacier travel and I find the weight saving of a 30 meter 'Rando' rope not worth it. Rescue coils are important and I am glad you take the necessary accoutrements.

jslade11 wrote:
What kind of half rope would you recommend?

My personal favorite half ropes are Edelweiss 8.5mm x 50 meter 'Sharp' rated, double dry treated cords.

jslade11 wrote:
You also mention about lower impact forces on doubles. Is it true that that only applies when they're clipped independently?

Double ropes should ONLY be clipped independently, so yes, the low impact forces are low only when clipped independently, this is true of twin and double rated ropes.

jslade11 wrote:
Also, you said you can rappel shuksan with a 50m. Is that doubling it up for a 25m length?

On Shuksan, I typically down climb the summit pyramid, but when I have rappelled it at the behest of my partners, a folded over 50 meter rope (e.g. 25 meter rappels) worked well.