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Personal attacks

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Postby rhyang » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:00 pm

squishy wrote:My feelings were never hurt. I had one run in down there years ago when someone used a technical flaw with the site to make me look stupid then attacked me, I explained it to the elves but no one cared. They actually created a situation in order to attack someone new, this was how I was welcomed, and it is allowed by this community.


Sorry dude, but you are just proving my point.

I wonder if a more explicit disclaimer should be added to p & p, sort of like the ones on packages of cigarettes (which of course smokers don't actually read :) )

edit: I see you changed your post in between the time you posted it and my response. Sorry about that .. let me know if you'd rather I removed it.
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Postby Dave K » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:32 pm

Squishy, this is an interesting topic, and one that has been discussed by many members. And, we've heard many of the arguments for moderating P and P raised many times.

They're usually good arguments.

But I'll repeat this again:

MANAGEMENT IS NOT GOING TO MODERATE P and P.

We don't want to do it.

By and large, moderating it would take up most of our time on SP and cause a lot of problems. We gave it up long ago, and we've moved on. That POS non-climbing portion of the site is just not worth our time. If it stays there, we don't care.

Rob and others are right: ignore P and P if it gets you worked up. Let the children there make asses of themselves. There are plenty of other moderated forums and great mountain pages and photos to enjoy.
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Postby drjohnso1182 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:39 pm

squishy wrote:I think it's funny people chock it up to feelings. The OP did not get attacked, they just observed an attack, I also did not get attacked, why am I writing all this? Your arguments in no way address my concerns or the OP, does anyone have anything intelligent to say about allowance of personal attacks on SP?

I never have anything intelligent to say, but I'm bored, so I'll humor you.

Somewhere in the wide range between 'good-natured ribbing' and 'direct personal threats' there's a fuzzy line that separates the abusive from the non-abusive. The exact position of the line is a matter of personal taste, and so naturally there should be occasional disagreements between more conservative members who feel the line has been crossed versus those with more liberal attitudes towards what constitutes abuse. This thread is an example of such a disagreement. You call the OP's example a personal attack, I call it childish teasing.

I will not attempt to further define what I consider 'abuse', but I know it when I see it.
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Postby maddie77777 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:17 pm

I don't visit P&P, never have since I joined. I came to this site for the original "intent" of it, but I understand the kind of garbage that goes on there, some of it interesting/funny, some of it annoying, etc.

But you have to understand what you may be setting yourself up for when you post personal information on the web. Nothing is sacred on the internet.
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Postby MoapaPk » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:36 pm

squishy wrote:If you believe there's nothing about you on the internet because you didn't put it there, you're wrong...


That's really not what he said.

Any time you post, you reveal a little more about yourself, and you may motivate people to dig up even more about you. For example, this page
http://www.summitpost.org/user_page.php?user_id=37913

reveals more than would be garnered from the public rolls.
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Postby The Chief » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:55 pm

squishy

You are taking this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to seriously.

Take a deep breath.... it's only the INTERNET. :wink:
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Postby Dave K » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:57 pm

Yep!
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Postby maddie77777 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:08 pm

Yes, I was speaking more to items that you actually let loose on the web. I don't know of other attacks you speak, but I read the initial link you provided about with that specific personal attack. Personally, I didn't see much wrong with it.

It sounded like good-natured ribbing, however politically incorrect it may have been. Is it just a couple people you are having problems with?

Also, you may need to take a look at how you serve as an antagonist in these as well. I'm not directing fault at anyone, I just know how these things work on the internet.
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Postby Dave K » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:24 pm

I personally think a discussion is a healthy thing.

But no, for the most part (and I mentioned a few exceptions above), we aren't going to moderate it. We're certainly not going to start untangling insults and their causation. We don't have time to do it, we don't have the desire to do it, and from our experience doing it, it solves little. It has proven to be a shit job for us with little net-benefit to the site.
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Postby MoapaPk » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:29 pm

squishy wrote:You are entirely correct Harlan Stockman, are you at home? I'll give you a call at 702-something-8522. FYI your domain will expire next month, and my dad use to work for Sandia as well, interesting place, lots going on there...Me caveman, simple folk....


Wow, I never knew people could figure that out about me! All I did was post my name on the web site that I linked!

Now a while back, some of the high-minded, noble people in this debate implied it was bad for SPers to post personal details in public forums. Where does that put you?

You don't want a fair resolution, so much as you just want to "win".
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Postby maddie77777 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:44 pm

I think it's fairly obvious that the SP team doesn't have any clear-cut rules on something of this nature, and I don't think it's necessary they come up with something. They have no obligation whatsoever to patrol these threads, especially in an area they deem a free-for-all.
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Postby rhyang » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:45 pm

This thread is starting to remind me of one of those where a certain SP'er starts complaining about the MLC SC or whatever that kicked him out 20 years ago ..

Image
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Postby Dave K » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:47 pm

squishy wrote:
Dave K wrote:I personally think a discussion is a healthy thing.

But no, for the most part (and I mentioned a few exceptions above), we aren't going to moderate it. We're certainly not going to start untangling insults and their causation. We don't have time to do it, we don't have the desire to do it, and from our experience doing it, it solves little. It has proven to be a shit job for us with little net-benefit to the site.


So the ONLY exception you listed was the use of "multiple avatars doing the attacks". The nature, content and/or results of the attacks are not considered PERIOD, by the administration of this website?

Do you know what you're essentially telling me? That's scary dude...

Maybe it's better that people don't know this...


No, that's not what I said Squishy. There are a few other times. But...we are NOT getting into cleaning up insults. And for the most part, we are leaving it alone.

"scary"?
Most people really don't seem to care that much as long as the insults stay there. Chief sums it up nicely in his post above.

Sorry you don't like it.
Last edited by Dave K on Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby JasonH » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:55 pm

maddie77777 wrote:It sounded like good-natured ribbing, however politically incorrect it may have been. Is it just a couple people you are having problems with?


Spoken like someone that has never been to the cesspool.
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Postby Dave K » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:10 pm

squishy wrote:
Dave K wrote:
squishy wrote:
Dave K wrote:I personally think a discussion is a healthy thing.

But no, for the most part (and I mentioned a few exceptions above), we aren't going to moderate it. We're certainly not going to start untangling insults and their causation. We don't have time to do it, we don't have the desire to do it, and from our experience doing it, it solves little. It has proven to be a shit job for us with little net-benefit to the site.


So the ONLY exception you listed was the use of "multiple avatars doing the attacks". The nature, content and/or results of the attacks are not considered PERIOD, by the administration of this website?

Do you know what you're essentially telling me? That's scary dude...

Maybe it's better that people don't know this...


No, that's not what I said Squishy. There are a few other times. But...we are NOT getting into cleaning up insults. And for the most part, we are leaving it alone.

"scary"?
Most people really don't seem to care that much as long as the insults stay there. Chief sums it up nicely in his post above.

Sorry you don't like it.


I'm sorry but I went back through the whole thing and the only "mentioned a few exceptions above" I could find were the multiple avatars, so no, you did not list anything else. I would like to hear them if your willing to list them...Could you have been mistaken and thought you listed them but in fact did not? I can only assume, by your statements, that your replies have been complete...






Some things we will delete include threats of violence, illegal stuff, advertisements, etc. Sometimes we'll find other stuff that strikes us as contrary to the interests of the site, but aren't listed, and we'll delete it. I'm not going to list everything. You can read the FAQ and terms of service for more info.

I did not, repeat, did not say that was the "only" reason for moderation. That is your insertion of the word "only" into my statement.

I think I'm going to move on now...
Last edited by Dave K on Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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