Nelson wrote:peninsula, But how would you feel if someone took your photo, put their own copyright mark on it, then ignored your requests to have the photo removed?
For example:
http://www.oeav-events.at/service/bilde ... image3.htm

In this case I even contacted Corax's lawyer, who said he could get it removed, but it would cost me about $120 and I wouldn't get anything in return. In other words the guilty party gets away scot-free and I have to pay. Hardly seems fair or right, does it?

I would take action against these guys if there was some way that made sense.

Good question. I think it is definitely unethical and lawless behavior. I would think embedded metadata would make it an easy case to prove the true owner, I would think some way could be found around hiring an attorney... wishful thinking on my part.

No doubt it is not right. I am not questioning right or wrong in this debate. But for me, like most of us that don't make much money (if any) with our photographic pursuits, would I really care? Again, I think only if money was being made on my behalf without my permission. That is just me. I don't have a problem with others feeling more violated. It is a violation. I have been robbed before (home broke into, vandalized and such), but I would not compare that reality to this in terms of magnitude, nothing close.

In other words, yes, I would take action against these guys if it made sense...

Nelson wrote:Thanks Moni, Yes, that is worth a try.

This thread prompted me to do a bit of searching and in less than 10 minutes I found over a dozen sites that had stolen the same photo. None have given me credit, but at least they didn't put their own copyright directly on it (though some do copyright the page). Many are in eastern Europe, and Nepalese trekking agencies seem to like it.

I got some help from Moni--she tweaked the language of another e-mail I sent to the folks Corax mentioned. I'll send it off and see what happens.

Corax wrote:

Kai wrote:These guys stole my photo.

I've sent them a couple of e-mails.

No response.

http://ari.rdx.net/abc/mountains/montbl ... enface.jpg

Dave + Moni - Thanks.

Kai - weird. That's Ari Paulin. He's a member of SP and he's active.
http://www.summitpost.org/user_page.php?user_id=842

Elves - If as in the case of Kai/Ari, I think you should somehow act on the former's behalf. At least ask Ari what the hell is going on.

Corax, I think we are making progress with the website you mentioned above, IF (BIG IF!!!) I am understanding their response through Google translator correctly. We'll see. It's still unfinished work at this point but I'll keep you posted.

Kai, I'll send Ari Paulin a PM.

Dave K wrote:Kai, I'll send Ari Paulin a PM.

Cool. I don't care that folks are using the picture (in a non-commercial manner.) All I want is a photo credit.

Dave - Thanks.
I was just about to take action myself and I have gotten two mails from other photo owners which are about to do the same. I'll do nothing until I've been updated about the development.

Ditto - thanks Dave. At least these guys will know that more than one person is aware of what's going on.

I just translated the response to Dave from the webmaster of the site that started this thread. The webmaster was very apologetic - he was given the photos to post and did not know they were stolen (I will give the benefit of the doubt about that at this point). So expect to be contacted personally for permission to use the photos.

We are working on the OEAV site now.

Moni wrote:I just translated the response to Dave from the webmaster of the site that started this thread. The webmaster was very apologetic - he was given the photos to post and did not know they were stolen (I will give the benefit of the doubt about that at this point). So expect to be contacted personally for permission to use the photos.

We are working on the OEAV site now.

I hope the Austrian Alpine Club will show some sense here - bad sign if they don´t!

Only the photos of Noshaq left.
Good.
Thanks for the help.

Kai wrote:

Dave K wrote:Kai, I'll send Ari Paulin a PM.

Cool. I don't care that folks are using the picture (in a non-commercial manner.) All I want is a photo credit.

I heard back from Ari. He apologized and promised to remove the photo later in the day when he can return to his computer. So, it looks like that problem will be solved soon.

Nelson, I still have not heard back from the site that posted your photo. Sorry!

Dave K wrote:Nelson, I still have not heard back from the site that posted your photo. Sorry!

Great when the national mountaineering club of a country acts like that. Not only stealing the photo, but also put their own copyright on the photo.
Austria is a member of CEPICand it can cost those OEAV bastards a lot if you notify them.

Edit: I'll send CEPIC a message, asking for advice.

I think we should e-bomb them, and otherwise hack the site to make it totally unusable. Slip in some trojan URLs while we're at it. They'd be sorry they ever touched the stuff.

brutus of wyde wrote:I think we should e-bomb them, and otherwise hack the site to make it totally unusable. Slip in some trojan URLs while we're at it. They'd be sorry they ever touched the stuff.

All good ideas. I could easily come up with some malicious scripts to harass their website, and believe me I've considered it, but for now I'll follow Corax's lead and try some more rational approaches. Publicizing that these guys are assholes is one good thing coming out of this.

Dave K, Corax and others, thanks for your help.

The same subject of stolen photos has been discussed at length on photography forums.
The discussions all boil down to this:
1. Great shots will continue to be stolen off the web and used and by others and you will be helpless to stop it.
2. If you don't want it stolen, don't post it on the internet. Period.

Ropeboy wrote:1. Great shots will continue to be stolen off the web and used and by others and you will be helpless to stop it.

Helpless to stop it, yes, but not to act against it.

The way some people look at this phenomena strike me as odd.
If you own any kind of property and someone steal it from you, do you just let it happen?
Don't you try to get it back or get compensation for what's stolen?
A lot of people think you're helpless and that there are no weapons against the thieves, "just because it's an internet thing and you just have to accept it as it is".
You're wrong.