1000Pks wrote:it's surprising that you should consider the opposing view with all of your efforts.

I think there's room for many forms of outdoor recreation, not just those I espouse. Except mules and horses and cows. Those suck, imo. Although I'm not sure cows are considered recreation.

Jury's still out on llamas.

Bob Burd wrote:

1000Pks wrote:it's surprising that you should consider the opposing view with all of your efforts.

I think there's room for many forms of outdoor recreation, not just those I espouse. Except mules and horses and cows. Those suck, imo. Although I'm not sure cows are considered recreation.

Jury's still out on llamas.

That's it, Bob. I'm tying you to a horse next summer from my friend's pack station and we're going to bring in steaks, wine, BBQ, potatoes, salad, whiskey, those fruity f-in Mike's Lemonade things you drink and spend a week peak bagging in my backyard. NO WHINING!

BTW: Cows are recreation when you tip them. Or try, anyway.

I was really looking for beta, but since there's precious little of that:

It's unfortunate that so many people immediately think "rednecks highmarking in the wilderness" when you mention snowmobiles. If it were some bureaucrat talking about banning climbing or requiring permits or mandatory ELTs because some dumbshit "climbers" wandered off a hiking trail and got cliffed out on a ledge again, you'd be pissed. How dare you pass judgment on an entire community based on the actions of a couple yahoos!

Serious question - are those of you who think I should get off my lazy ass and do all my approaches on foot the moment a road is covered in snow, even if I would have driven them a couple weeks before, equally disdainful of the crowds that show up when the UC opens White Mtn Rd up to Barcroft?[/i]

mattyj wrote:Serious question - are those of you who think I should get off my lazy ass and do all my approaches on foot the moment a road is covered in snow, even if I would have driven them a couple weeks before, equally disdainful of the crowds that show up when the UC opens White Mtn Rd up to Barcroft?[/i]

Yes.

mattyj wrote:It's unfortunate that so many people immediately think "rednecks highmarking in the wilderness" when you mention snowmobiles. If it were some bureaucrat talking about banning climbing or requiring permits or mandatory ELTs because some dumbshit "climbers" wandered off a hiking trail and got cliffed out on a ledge again, you'd be pissed. How dare you pass judgment on an entire community based on the actions of a couple yahoos!

Oh but if it were just a couple. But sadly its like hunters - and the moronic drunken yahoos far out number the responsible ones. But you knew that!

Serious question - are those of you who think I should get off my lazy ass and do all my approaches on foot the moment a road is covered in snow, even if I would have driven them a couple weeks before, equally disdainful of the crowds that show up when the UC opens White Mtn Rd up to Barcroft?[/i]

I went up there with the kids for an open house. Fascinating place. It was a rainy assed T-storm day so people were just hanging out, it was a regular party. Wandered into the kitchen they had coffee and oatmeal cookies.

I like coffee AND oatmeal cookies.

SO I helped myself to a cup of hot joe and took a sip - ah! Palmed two cookies while I was at it. The kids didn't want either, as they detest coffee and don't like oatmeal. I made each of them take one too.

So out in the hallway I drank my coffee and ate my four fucking cookies. But you know what? Pa Milktoast, leader of the notorious outlaw Milktoast Gang, was still hungry. So he sent his outlaw daughters back in the pillage the science lab kitchen. They returned with the purloined cookies... two more each.

"That's it Pop, enjoy!"

"What do you mean?" I sputteded, spraying them both with cookie matter. Kaity responded with a rather indignant look on her face,

"Pop, you clean em out. Those are the last cookies in the lab."

No cookie ever tasted so sweet. The Milktoast Gang took down the Barcroft Lab Cookie Cache and they were none the wiser. We high tailed it out of there when some bearded physicist lookin dude spent an inordinate amount of time staring at the cookie crumbs on my Pattagucci lapels.

So of course we escaped down Silver Canyon.

How bout them snow machines? I sure would like to have one, but seems extravagant waste for a flatlander like me to be owning one of those things.

Cheerio
Pa Milktoast

Dingus Milktoast wrote:But sadly its like hunters - and the moronic drunken yahoos far out number the responsible ones. But you knew that!

Actually, no. I haven't met any of them in the backcountry. Generally, unless I'm in a popular snowmobile area (once walked from 267 to Watson Lake, which is a guided snowmobile tour route - that was fun!), they're few and far between, and the ones that are there are just fine.

To be honest, it's the same thing with hunters. Unless you call guys plinking cans across the friggin phantom spires approach road hunters.

Certainly popular OHV areas tend to be littered with trash, and I've camped in more than a few dispersed USFS sites with shotgun shells all over the ground and a rotting mattress near the campfire pit. But I do think that in most cases it's a small minority of users. It may be that I just haven't met the right people . . .

My cousin and his friends use them on approaches to mountains and skiing in the Bend/Sisters area.
I think if the machines are used on approaches, ie. on roads, and then left behind where the road meets the mountain, and not used in wilderness areas, then all is fine, and that's where they should end, besides the obvious designated areas. I don't like the machines, and am glad Clinton bannned them from Yellowstone(only to have it overturned, to some degree, by GW.). But, they do serve a utilitarian purpose, and I have been towed by them at a ski area. To shorten the approach on an otherwise long ski in, seems reasonable. This is different than continuing on and seeing how high you can take them, doing laps on peaks, etc. Some, with the FS' consent, are allowed to take them up Mt. St. Helens. Matter of fact, one smart guy was up near the rim with his machine last winter(?), and he and his machine fell over the side a ways into the crater. Fucking brilliant. And the FS makes climbers pay a higher fee than the Snom-oer's, who pay virtually nothing. Unbelievable.

mattyj wrote:I was really looking for beta, but since there's precious little of that:

Well, that was to be expected.
There were a few gems in the last 3 pages though.
Especially what ^dskoon just said.
There are enough jerks in this world to warrant wilderness areas. It only takes one or two a-holes to ruin it for everybody. The world is full of all sorts of people...


I will have most of January OFF.
mattyj - I've got places to run your machines without any grief.
I'll show you First Descents that could be nabbed - only after driving for 15-20 miles on Forest Service roads to access the goods.
You are the perfect Coastal Crest Snow Patrol member...

Hulld on - it takes awhile...
http://www.thebackcountry.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=138




__________________
Coastal Crest Snow Patrol

Matty,

I've been following this thread and while I appreciate all comments, I actually live in Tahoe, frequent the backcountry, climb, snowboard, am in SAR and OWN SNOWMOBILES. I have done much snowboarding via the snowmobile by pairing up the rider and driver, the easiest way is for each to stand on the opposites sides of the tunnel and cooperatively operate the throttle and the brake. This technique makes much better use of the suspension, provides better balance, and allows for better climbing.

I agree that the machines should never be in wilderness or other restricted areas, but if the area is a designated OHV area and allows the use, why not.

For the record. I splitboard, and have been doing so for many years. I prefer to earn my turns in the solitude that others on this topic refer to. But, there are days when 10 or 12 laps on a 1500 foot face is the best option going.

Each year (March) we tow in supplies for a one week base camp. We then earn our turns from the base camp, never getting on the machines again until we leave.

Send me a PM