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Ice Tools: adze and hammer?

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Ice Tools: adze and hammer?

Postby albanberg » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:20 pm

or is it ok to just get both with hammers?

Looking for ice climbing and alpine.

Also, does anyone have an opinion on BD Cobras vs the new Fusion?

Thanks in advance for your experience/knowledge!
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Postby Autoxfil » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:35 pm

I have not used the Fusion, but I've used new Vipers and new and old Cobras. I personally would not take a mixed tool like that for alpine use. I like having a hammer and something to piolet cane/self-belay with.

The new Laser picks are great. They get beat up quickly on rocky alpine climbs, but they stick very well for pure ice.

The Vipers are great and cheap. The new Cobras won't get your hands quite as cold and feel more "damp" on the swing, but the Viper is only 1oz heavier and climbs very much the same. The new Android leashes are very nice as well, but I prefer leashless and tethers. I made my own full-strength tethers which are very versatile - I can plant my axes and be off belay if they are solid, or clip them off my tools and into an anchor, etc.
I like dual hammers. You can really get by without an adze easily, using the pick and hammer to clear bad ice for screws.
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Postby albanberg » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:53 pm

Autoxfil wrote:I have not used the Fusion, but I've used new Vipers and new and old Cobras. I personally would not take a mixed tool like that for alpine use. I like having a hammer and something to piolet cane/self-belay with.

The new Laser picks are great. They get beat up quickly on rocky alpine climbs, but they stick very well for pure ice.

The Vipers are great and cheap. The new Cobras won't get your hands quite as cold and feel more "damp" on the swing, but the Viper is only 1oz heavier and climbs very much the same. The new Android leashes are very nice as well, but I prefer leashless and tethers. I made my own full-strength tethers which are very versatile - I can plant my axes and be off belay if they are solid, or clip them off my tools and into an anchor, etc.
I like dual hammers. You can really get by without an adze easily, using the pick and hammer to clear bad ice for screws.



For alpine I have a "regular" ice axe...the yellow Grivel one w/the bend in it, which I like. But if I will also need a technical ice tool I would bring one of these that I'm considering.

I'll have to look at the Vipers, have not checked them out.

EMS has a sale on the Cobras but they only have the hammers. I figured I could buy two with hammers and have no problems but wanted to check.

Was thinking of making tethers with cord....the BD tether thing looks cool though as it seems to retract.

Also thinking of the new Fusion though as the weight is close to the Cobra and the shape/handle looks good. Would be more cold though as you note. The Cobras on sale are about the same price though.

Thanks for your input!
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Postby climbxclimb » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:01 pm

BD tools are very heavy compared to other tools to be used for alpine climbing....You should check the Grivel Quantum Light, the Petzl Aztarex, or the Petzl Aztar. The Quantum Light and Aztar climb waterfall ice very well also.
By the way I am selling a pair of Petzl Aztar, if you are interested send me a pm.
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Postby JonW » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:04 pm

albanberg wrote: EMS has a sale on the Cobras but they only have the hammers.


For $25 you can buy an adze that will fit on the Cobras. You can then change one of the tools based on what you want to do (technical ice/mixed vs. alpine w/ snow).
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Postby albanberg » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:19 pm

climbxclimb wrote:BD tools are very heavy compared to other tools to be used for alpine climbing....You should check the Grivel Quantum Light, the Petzl Aztarex, or the Petzl Aztar. The Quantum Light and Aztar climb waterfall ice very well also.
By the way I am selling a pair of Petzl Aztar, if you are interested send me a pm.


Interesting...had not realized that the BD stuff was heavier. I have a Quantum Tech, which I like (although I have not used it yet), but I'm interested in having a matching set and thought maybe I would want something else. Yeah the Quantum light looks great to take for alpine if I just need 1 extra tool.

Yeah I saw your post on the Aztar. Not sure if that's what I want...I'm curious what you're using now instead.
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Postby climbxclimb » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:27 pm

I am selling the Aztar because they are my wife`s tools (although I took them on alpine climbs myself, before buying the quantum light) an she is not using them anymore.
I use the Quantum Light for alpine climbing hammer and azde, and I have a pair of Nomics and a pair of Quarks for waterfall ice. If I am going alpine climbing and I know that there are pitches of WI4+ WI5- (My leading limit), I am willing to take the Quarks with me, because I feel better leading with them at that level, but that is just me...
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Postby albanberg » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:31 pm

Interesting climbxclimb, thanks for the detail...it's always interesting to hear what people like to use. I'll have to continue to mull it over...
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Postby BigMitch » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:47 am

Autofix:

What did you use and how did you make your tethers? Thanks.
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Postby Autoxfil » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:26 am

The tethers are one piece of 9/16" tubular webbing about 15' long, with 10' of thin shock cord in the middle. This scrunches the tubing up so it doesn't tangle, but gives me some stretch to make high placements. It also provides a softer catch if I drop a tool.

I tied a loop about 6" long in the center with an overhand, and I girth-hitch that through my harness. That makes each tool independent.

The tool ends have short loops tied in them, and I use a non-locking wiregate to clip into the tool. For snow pitches I clip the top of the tool for piolet cane. To take up the slack I then run each side of the tether through an ice clipper on my harness.
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Postby jrc » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:27 am

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Postby Mark Straub » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:00 am

I have a pair of Petzl Aztars set up to be used leashless with homemade umbilicals like you were talking about. I bought them from a person who added a pinky rest and trigger finger (he made them himself). They are great on waterfall ice! I have not tried them out yet on mixed or alpine, but they seem to plunge fairly well.

-Mark
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