Many times people can do the research, know all the routes, but locals (whom we have in spades on SP) know something jarring about local conditions. For example, a forest fire may have recently closed off an area (Signal Peak, UT, summer 2005); we may have a very active avalanche season (Charleston NV, 2005); fires and landslides may have wiped out a trail (Porter and Sentinel CA by the east side); a flash flood may have wiped out the road (Troy Peak NV, 2007); cheat grass seed heads require desert gaiters (lots of desert peaks in 2005).

I've encountered a lot of people who want to snowshoe the North Loop Trail to Charleston in winter. Unless you search the forums here, you could do all the research on Charleston, and still get in a dangerous fix (after all, what could be wrong with a class 1 trail?).

MoapaPk wrote:Many times people can do the research, know all the routes, but locals (whom we have in spades on SP) know something jarring about local conditions. For example, a forest fire may have recently closed off an area (Signal Peak, UT, summer 2005); we may have a very active avalanche season (Charleston NV, 2005); fires and landslides may have wiped out a trail (Porter and Sentinel CA by the east side); a flash flood may have wiped out the road (Troy Peak NV, 2007); cheat grass seed heads require desert gaiters (lots of desert peaks in 2005).

I've encountered a lot of people who want to snowshoe the North Loop Trail to Charleston in winter. Unless you search the forums here, you could do all the research on Charleston, and still get in a dangerous fix (after all, what could be wrong with a class 1 trail?).

Good point....

Get my email, Walt(er)?

Google search "14ers near Denver":

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=14er+close+to+Denver&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g-c1

I count, on the first page and a half, reliable information from 14ers.com, 14ers.org, localhikes.com, alanarnette.com, the examiner, even SUMMITPOST has copious previous threads to this effect...

I rest my case.

So I went to 14ers.com, typed Denver into the search, and BAM, there was a thread on mountains near Denver, and the first suggestion was that the questioner go to a library or bookstore.

That's funny, I went to 14ers.com, figuring that they'd have anything and everything you want to know about 14ers organized in some sort of reasonable fashion and, sure enough, there's a drop-down menu that includes a 14ers location map, different groupings of 14ers, route info, what's easy, blah-blah-blah.

I don't hang out at 14ers.com so I'm as new to the website as probably the OP.



PS - Woundedknee, I never brought up the subject of "kids these days." That's your interpretation. I'm referring to an assessment that a large majority of folks in general are lazy. That's not to say that a portion of your assessment is also correct - that a fair number of people actually do research. And an even larger portion likely doesn't hang out on forums but gets the book and hits the trail.

MarthaP wrote:PS - Woundedknee, I never brought up the subject of "kids these days." That's your interpretation. I'm referring to an assessment that a large majority of folks in general are lazy. That's not to say that a portion of your assessment is also correct - that a fair number of people actually do research. And an even larger portion likely doesn't hang out on forums but gets the book and hits the trail.

"Kids these days" was a bit tongue in cheek, but this phrasing "What has happened to us? Have we stopped reading? Do folks no longer take pride in learning on their own?" led me to believe you think people are trending towards laziness. The only argument you'll get from me there is that I think people have always been lazy.

MarthaP wrote:Research FIRST, then ask INTELLIGENT questions.

For the record, I research first, then ask stupid questions.

WoundedKnee wrote:For the record, I research first, then ask stupid questions.

Good one. LOL, and I really mean it.

fossana wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:

zenalpinist wrote:I'd like to do something sometime that might take place somewhere that isn't where I am presently at. I'm not sure what this will be but I hope that someone might have some leads that might produce some information that would be helpful in this endeavor.

Secor says you just follow the obvious weakness to a ledge system.

It goes at class 5.

But with careful route finding you can keep it at class 4

truchas wrote:

MarthaP wrote:It was clear no one read the posts and, out of sheer laziness, wanted a quick answer without doing their own research.

Did you ever consider the thought that maybe the posts were poorly written and that is why nobody read them?

How does it go: "There are no stupid questions...just stupid people answering them?"

Husker wrote:

truchas wrote:

MarthaP wrote:It was clear no one read the posts and, out of sheer laziness, wanted a quick answer without doing their own research.

Did you ever consider the thought that maybe the posts were poorly written and that is why nobody read them?

How does it go: "There are no stupid questions...just stupid people answering them?"

There Are No Stupid Questions, But There Are a Lot of Inquisitive Idiots.

Pardon me, but isn't the purpose of the forums to ask questions and get information? I agree there are many stupid questions and topics-- like the endless posts about climbing Hood and Rainier-- but isn't that why the forums are here?

I've been here long enough and have added enough pages here that I know my way around the site quite well, but a newer member or non-contributing one might have a much tougher time. What's the big deal? Someone wants to know the closest 14er to Denver? Fine, tell him and provide a link to the SP page and then leave the rest to him. What's so terrible about that?

That takes wastes too much time. Instead, write a 20-lines response explaining that it wastes time.

MikeTX wrote:

Pivvay wrote:

fossana wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:

zenalpinist wrote:I'd like to do something sometime that might take place somewhere that isn't where I am presently at. I'm not sure what this will be but I hope that someone might have some leads that might produce some information that would be helpful in this endeavor.

Secor says you just follow the obvious weakness to a ledge system.

It goes at class 5.

But with careful route finding you can keep it at class 4

What's class 4?

For my students, it's history.

MikeTX wrote:

Pivvay wrote:

fossana wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:

zenalpinist wrote:I'd like to do something sometime that might take place somewhere that isn't where I am presently at. I'm not sure what this will be but I hope that someone might have some leads that might produce some information that would be helpful in this endeavor.

Secor says you just follow the obvious weakness to a ledge system.

It goes at class 5.

But with careful route finding you can keep it at class 4

What's class 4?

Class 4 is any class 3 climb I wuss out on.