Hah ! I followed it in 2006 (also txgiving) .. the dude I was climbing with forgot to tape up and I could tell where he put his hands by the blood stains The vogel guide said 5.8, but we know about Jtree ratings don't we

As for Sedona,....

depends on the weather. We just got 6-8ft of snow and Sedona got 10" of rain so the stuff in Sedona/Oak Creek Canyon will be somewhere in between. Up until that storm we were climbing every week down there. Now we won't be able to cross the rivers and washes until things dry out a bit but February to mid/end of March is prime Sedona weather (actually Oct- late March).

Indian Creek.... weather dependent. In probably 3wks (mid Feb) I'll start doing day trips to the Creek depending on the weather. My first trip of the year, last year was Feb 27th.

If you are in the area and need a partner, look me up.

Guyzo wrote:Rob.... dogleg is and has been 5.9 ..... forever.

It was 5.8 in 1973 when I started climbing and it is still 5.8 30something years later. The issue is that Double Cross is barely 5.7 and makes Dogleg feel hard in comparison.

CC thanks for the info and invite.... tons of snow last weekend. The desert around phoenix looked like a lake. I guess it will dry up pretty quickly once the sun starts working on it.

And short.... maybe it was "F8" ??????? I always translate the "F" system to YDS by adding +1.....

lets see if we can find the desert rats guide.

If Watanabe Wall is 5.10a, then Double Cross is 5.7- and Dogleg is 5.8. But if Cakewalk is 5.8 then Dogleg is 5.9.

Sail Away is a very soft 5.8 but would need to be 5.7 for Dogleg to be 5.8.

That said, some Josh 5.9 cracks which by comparison make Dogleg 5.8 for sure in my book are Norwegian Wood, American Express, Overseer, Sphincter Quits, Rock Candy, Tumbling Rainbow and Western Saga. And if Right V Crack is 5.10a, then...

Cenotaph Corner in north Wales. A wonderful one pitch route and a real milestone when put up by Brown and Whillans in the 50´s. I did it about 20 years ago and was very impressed.

Here are some modern photos of it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/macalli/2505414939/in/photostream/

Cool What kind of rock is it ?

re: Jtree ratings .. good stuff

charles wrote:Cenotaph Corner in north Wales. A wonderful one pitch route and a real milestone when put up by Brown and Whillans in the 50´s. I did it about 20 years ago and was very impressed.

Here are some modern photos of it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/macalli/2505414939/in/photostream/

Charles..... a for you..... your sure it was Whillans?????

I have a guide book for that place, "Rock Climbing in Wales" by Ron James. 1970.
FA. Brown, Belshaw 1952. HVS+

He calls it, "one of the best in Britain" .... "giving superb climbing in a perfect line up the centre of this fine cliff. A "must" for all aspiring hard men...."

I have a few climbs on my bucket list, this is one of em...

another is "Cemetery Gates" just to the right.... FA Brown, Williams 1951 HVS+

.... "This is one of the best hard routes in Wales" .....

Have you climbed that one????

I have always wished to go and experience Llanberis.... climbers like Brown, Williams, Edwards and others really laid the foundation of free climbing a long time ago. And I hear there is some pretty good pub action going down.

But crack or face it's all good.

Edit..... wow I just checked SP's wonderful search engine.... and unless I am wrong... Cenotaph Corner is not listed in Summitpost. Somebody need to fix that. ........

I always smile when I see those old Brit grades.

"Hard, Very Severe, Plus."

Nice...

ksolem wrote:I always smile when I see those old Brit grades.

"Hard, Very Severe, Plus."

Nice...

Me to.

I have some of my own too. Totally Freaking Insane. "TFI"

Imposable To Comprehend "ITC"

I think to use a set of word to describe a climb would assume that climbers are literate.

That is why we have a number system, in the USA

Guyzo wrote:

charles wrote:Cenotaph Corner in north Wales. A wonderful one pitch route and a real milestone when put up by Brown and Whillans in the 50´s. I did it about 20 years ago and was very impressed.

Here are some modern photos of it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/macalli/2505414939/in/photostream/

Charles..... a for you..... your sure it was Whillans?????

I have a guide book for that place, "Rock Climbing in Wales" by Ron James. 1970.
FA. Brown, Belshaw 1952. HVS+

He calls it, "one of the best in Britain" .... "giving superb climbing in a perfect line up the centre of this fine cliff. A "must" for all aspiring hard men...."

I have a few climbs on my bucket list, this is one of em...

another is "Cemetery Gates" just to the right.... FA Brown, Williams 1951 HVS+

.... "This is one of the best hard routes in Wales" .....

Have you climbed that one????

I have always wished to go and experience Llanberis.... climbers like Brown, Williams, Edwards and others really laid the foundation of free climbing a long time ago. And I hear there is some pretty good pub action going down.

But crack or face it's all good.

Edit..... wow I just checked SP's wonderful search engine.... and unless I am wrong... Cenotaph Corner is not listed in Summitpost. Somebody need to fix that. ........

You re correct - my bad!
And no I never got round to Cemetery Gates - sadly. It was on my list for too long I guess. All named after bus stops too - so the story goes.

ksolem wrote:I always smile when I see those old Brit grades.

"Hard, Very Severe, Plus."

Nice...

Yes, an organic system! It reflects how it developed though - just think when Wynthrop Young was climbing Severe meant that´s it - it don´t get harder than this. Until it did - so what do you call them - why Very Severe of course. But that´s finally it. Oh no it´s not - OK then these last few ones will get tagged Hard Very Severe. There wont be anything extremer then that - oh wait a minute - let´s call them Extreme then!

It was easier to read the numeric grade with each pitch - 4a,b,c then 5a,b,c and so on. Numeric grades do make it easier though.
Another side line was that it was all subjective any way - Peak District was not the same as Wales, or the Lakes or Scotland. Lovely stuff.

At the end, as someone rightly stated - GREAT climbs though!

Cheers

PS I can still feel the buzz after finishing the corner

Saw this on the taco a while back -

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum ... -with-Dale









I've been working on certain-sized offwidths for months, well maybe more like years at this point

The Bard article is hands down (no pun intended) the best yet written on crack climbing. It pretty much taught me most of what I know.

Bump for hand jams and rock season.