Whats the deal with those in-expensive Russian ice screws? Are they rated to hold any substantial force? I personally don't trust em, the teeth are probably less than 1mm deep. What is there primary purpose?

Hoping someone has info on them, always been curious.

The guy I bought them off said that he was going to give some to BD to have them tested. Wonder if he ever did?

Maybe some Eastern Europe folks have the info on 'em. The Irbis screws i believe were made in USSR

Comments Welcomed on Shady Subject!

And yes, I will admit that I have used them

I've always understood them to be acceptably strong for toprope level loads and great as leaver screws, but I can't point you to any data to back that up. I am quite certain that the reports of load testing on these screws usually shows the aluminum hanger to fail first, but again, I can't point you to the actually reports as it's been a while since I ran across them. Another failure mode is the ti body stripping out the aluminum hanger as you try to screw them in.

I've used them. At $13 a pop a teenager new to ice can't resist buying a few of them. They dull so quickly that it's almost impossible to spin them into really cold ice. If you could go back in time to some of my first leads, you could see me up on some crappy WI2+ spinning them in with my ice tool for leverage! Needless to say, they've been sitting at the bottom of the spare climbing gear bag for quite some time now.

John

Can't remember where I read this but apparently Ushba has decent quality (QC-wise) titanium screws.

My general impression of titanium screws is that they are leaver screws, but with a 22cm screw and some cord one can just make V-threads to bail off of.

In the early 90s, The UIAA did tests on ice screws and tested miriad of makes, among them Russian titanium screws. At the time I had about 20 of them so I remember reading the report with some interest. It might have been published in the AAJ. I remember holding power averaging about 2200 lbs. before failure.

On a practical side, I used them and still do in alpine terrain. I never took a direct fall on one of them, although I did take a slide on a long fixed rope traverse in Nepal, went couple hundred feet and the two titanium screws holding each end of the traverse held just fine.

I used them in alpine terrain, where 7 or 8 of them would work great, two each for the anchors and three (or four) for running belays. They are light, inexpensive enough to be abused and or left behind and for me, they do the work.

BTW I do have a set of BD screws for water ice.

It is not that much about the rating, but more about efficiency...they are very hard to place you will be battling quite a bit to get one in, this if you are leading hard ice, WI4 and above....that is why they are not o everybody`s rack....on the other hand, titanium pitons are great....

"Inexpensive" and "Titanium" just don't go together. To give you an idea of the cost of steel vs. titanium, we use both at my job and high quality steel cost about $1.50/lb. whereas high quality titanium cost us about $20/lb.

But I guess Russian titanium is better than Chinese titanium!

I just started leading easy water ice, and these screws suck in comparison to BD screws. The Grivel ones look nice too, but I haven't used them. I wouldn't buy the titanium screws unless they were like $10 a piece.

EDIT: Clarity

-Mark

I've got a bunch of Titanium screws as well... maybe 3 or 4. Bought them for about $10 each, along with 2 snargs for about $7 each. They'll only be carried on longer routes where the possibility of needing to bail is pretty high.

I'll be heading out this weekend to test them out. I'll also try doing a custom-sharpening job on one of them to see if I can increase performance at all. I can tell just by holding them in my living room that I wouldn't want to have to get one of these in place while on steep terrain.

Gigamike makes a good point with titanium much more expensive, but I want to know about it vs. steel in cold conditions breaking point...

I am open to ideas on how to 'test' the screws with out myself jumping off onto one 10 ft above placement!

I'll jump.

Titanium ice screws were never intended for water ice, ever. Their primary use was and still is for alpine ice on long mountain routes where weight is of utmost importance. Their holding power is OK, their weight is minimal and most importantly, their low price allows one to leave them behind (without crying about it) if absolutely needed.

Modern ice screws far exceed 20+ year old titanium made products both in ease of placement, holding power and ease of removal. If you are going up WI4, bring the right tools for it, titanium screws are not (and never were) the right equipment for climbing water ice.

IMO Grivel screws are wonderful. The 360's with the foldout hanger go in odd places where other screws can't fit, but are a pain to rack. The helixes rack a little more sensibly but cannot be placed in the spots the 360's can.

I've read that the newest generation of BD turbo express (stainless steel hangers) go in almost as good as the grivel's, but haven't tried them yet.

I left a couple of those cheap Irbis Ti screws on the Kautz several years ago as bail pieces. I still have a couple for crevasse rescue & such. They are light, and that is their sole advantage.

The new BD Turbo Express screws are sweet.

By the way, if anyone has any Turbo Express screws they are willing to sell for a reasonable price, I need to build up an ice rack.

-Mark

Blair wrote:Hoping someone has info on them, always been curious.

The guy I bought them off said that he was going to give some to BD to have them tested. Wonder if he ever did?

Maybe some Eastern Europe folks have the info on 'em. The Irbis screws i believe were made in USSR

Comments Welcomed on Shady Subject!

And yes, I will admit that I have used them

Hate to revive this thread, but....I completely forgot about sending those screws to BD in Salt Lake. I checked after reading this and only have one left. I thought I had 3 after selling a few to you, but I must have lost a couple. If I ever come across them (or have money to buy more just for testing purposes), I'll send them off and post up. Unfortunately, that seems a bit unlikely at this point.

-Brenton