One more thing, I'll be snapping pictures like crazy. That does take time. I'll be wanting to record the standard route, and of course the view from the top. I assume the usual way is by Northgate (?). That was private land back in 1979, or so I was told.

If anyone else is interested, I can't pay $500 for a few hours work, as most CA guides would require. I'd say maybe $150 for a successful climb, is what it's worth to me. But I wonder if guides are allowed in Zion, I hear it's all under the table.

Guides normally have to be registered for National Parks; but you can always treat CP to $150 worth of food at Oscar's .

Rather buy a new rope to be used on the climb, then given for the success. $150 worth of food at Oscar's? Is it a swanky place? Springdale?

1000Pks wrote:Rather buy a new rope to be used on the climb, then given for the success. $150 worth of food at Oscar's? Is it a swanky place? Springdale?

I'm joking. $150 of food at Oscar's would kill most people.

Why all this talk of money? Why not keep the cash and just enjoy a day out in the hills with us? Good will does exist, as improbable as it seems. Or perhaps you prefer someone with "credentials," which you'll not find to take you up NGA.

Regardless, it's up to you, man. The offer's there. And I'll vouch for Moapa, who will vouch for me -- neither of us are homicidal maniacs. DB's the one you gotta worry about.

Why all this talk of money? Why not keep the cash and just enjoy a day out in the hills with us? Good will does exist, as improbable as it seems. Or perhaps you prefer someone with "credentials," which you'll not find to take you up NGA.

Regardless, it's up to you, man. The offer's there. And I'll vouch for Moapa, who will vouch for me -- neither of us are homicidal maniacs. DB's the one you gotta worry about.

Fees are an incentive for the guide to show up. I wouldn't want to drive my 2,000 miles to find you slept in, like the MLC SC and others will happily do, since it's not a job or that they are not getting paid. I was leading NGA myself, but the MLC SC group was too disenabled to act as a rope team, so I didn't get my peak. Class 4 leading was well within my ability at the time, but with no directions, belayer, or even someone with first aid training, it was an easy call.

Accidents do happen. If I suffered say a broken leg, there would be an insurance policy to pay with a responsible guide service, assuming I won in court. You guys have been on SP for a long time, but then so has Bob Burd. He passes through town and never has he taken my offers to meet and treat.

A Vegas meet up on me is in the works, given you guys can agree on a time and place. I've pretty much seen it all and done it all. What I really want is a competent partner from Northern CA, willing to share gas and driving, as capable as I am exactly. But it's been 6 years for me on SP, and so very few have come forward to do even anything!

1000Pks wrote:Fees are an incentive for the guide to show up. I wouldn't want to drive my 2,000 miles to find you slept in...

Ask Rick Kent or MoapaPk or Day Hiker or Andinistaloco or Matthew Holliman or Dow Williams or SarahThompson or ... about me "sleeping in" on mountain days. Ask Day Hiker about the many, many times we met at 2 AM to go climb in Zion. Sleep in? Not gonna happen, Peter.

Besides, I'm obsessed with Zion, if you haven't already noticed. Do you really think it's likely I'm not going to participate?

Accidents do happen. If I suffered say a broken leg, there would be an insurance policy to pay with a responsible guide service, assuming I won in court.

Don't have any insurance that's gonna cover you, man. We go to NGA as new friends, helping each other out, each doing our part to try and keep the group safe. Nothing more; nothing less.

I've pretty much seen it all and done it all.

Seems a bit over the top. I've summited 1,000 different mountains and haven't seen the tip of the iceberg. There's so much to this world, Peter. Let's go see some of Zion together.

A Vegas meet up on me is in the works, given you guys can agree on a time and place.

Lemme know. I look forward to it.

1000Pks wrote:
Fees are an incentive for the guide to show up. I wouldn't want to drive my 2,000 miles to find you slept in...


Ask Rick Kent or MoapaPk or Day Hiker or Andinistaloco or Matthew Holliman or Dow Williams or SarahThompson or ... about me "sleeping in" on mountain days. Ask Day Hiker about the many, many times we met at 2 AM to go climb in Zion. Sleep in? Not gonna happen, Peter.

Besides, I'm obsessed with Zion, if you haven't already noticed. Do you really think it's likely I'm not going to participate?

There's many reasons why people do not show up, even for their own SC trips! You can have a family emergency, your car can break down, a fire or robbery in your place, I chose "slept in" as an example. I don't know any of those guys either, at least to climb with. I used to get the firmest assertions to meeting up, to find it was a prank. Why I'd wish to meet up or chat, first.

Quote:
Accidents do happen. If I suffered say a broken leg, there would be an insurance policy to pay with a responsible guide service, assuming I won in court.


Don't have any insurance that's gonna cover you, man. We go to NGA as new friends, helping each other out, each doing our part to try and keep the group safe. Nothing more; nothing less.

That's cool with me. Just trying to be sure you understand. You can get killed as well.

Quote:
I've pretty much seen it all and done it all.


Seems a bit over the top. I've summited 1,000 different mountains and haven't seen the tip of the iceberg. There's so much to this world, Peter. Let's go see some of Zion together.

Quote:
A Vegas meet up on me is in the works, given you guys can agree on a time and place.


Lemme know. I look forward to it.

It's a big world out there, I'll be the first to agree. But I am too poor to enjoy it all, I have to choose wisely what I will spend my money to climb. I will not be infinite bump bagging, and neither will most of my associates in the peak sections. Working on my list is fine enough for me.

I see nothing ahead for me yet to go out there till next fall. An expensive car service ruins me for a whole year. My computer can break down. I had plans to visit Utah parks for years before I finally got to go.

Maybe neither you or Moapa have video chat capability, I don't know. We'd move forward far more efficiently or quickly, and I can be convinced to climb out of season given some chance of success. If you'd rather blow me off on SP saying that I had a chance but refused, as it seems here, fine. NGA is no big priority, it's a life risk and I could get into a wreck on my drive, or get robbed or whatever. For you, Zion is a day activity, no big thing. I have to plan it all out, and things can go wrong. I'd much rather have it the way we did up here, where I scheduled a trip, all with insurance, experienced climbers that I can just phone, and we go at any time or condition, game for another big or little adventure. One more statement about how it turned out up here.

It's your world, man. Just lemme know when you wanna climb NGA and we'll see if we can put a plan together.

It's your world, man. Just lemme know when you wanna climb NGA and we'll see if we can put a plan together.

As I said, next fall looks good enough. I would think the middle of summer is too hot. Or if May/June would be any good, you're the Zion expert.

May/June is an awesome time for NGA. I'll be gone for much of the summer (mid-June to early August, that is). Fall is good for me too.

May/June is an awesome time for NGA. I'll be gone for much of the summer (mid-June to early August, that is). Fall is good for me too.

When the time rolls around, I'll be here. If you hear of fantastic conditions, like a solid snow pack to hike over, or what, and it's clear and good to go on the route, I can be in Vegas in 10 hours. Though I need a lengthy stretch of good weather about the time, to do other things/peaks while I'm down there.

Otherwise we can meet sooner if I head down there for other hikes. I have more ops to e-mail while I'm on the road now, and I like the spring for snowy peaks.

cp0915 wrote:

1000Pks wrote:Fees are an incentive for the guide to show up. I wouldn't want to drive my 2,000 miles to find you slept in...

Ask Rick Kent or MoapaPk or Day Hiker or Andinistaloco or Matthew Holliman or Dow Williams or SarahThompson or ... about me "sleeping in" on mountain days.

Cp speaks the truth. I still have nightmares about that dude shaking me at 1:45 am... "dude, come on, it's time to get going." Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

As far as that goes, I sometimes cannot sleep, so take off at 1 a.m. I have never met cp so I wouldn't know how he is. I just am used to MLC SC, they abhor early starts. For them, to meet at 8:30 and then a breakfast stop for coffee, and snoozing in the car enroute is standard for them.

I do sleep late sometimes, since I mostly have nothing to do and asleep, I am not spending any money. That merits another warning about me, I wake up early on the road and often am in the car, driving at 3 a.m.! When there is a peak or few to climb!

1000Pks wrote:If you hear of fantastic conditions, like a solid snow pack to hike over, ...

I'm guessing that you don't really want a solid snow pack for the approach to NGA, and you are unlikely to find one in May/June. The approach is up the N side of the peak, and the walk isn't very long.