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Which is the second most important range in Europe ?

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Postby paisajeroamericano » Thu May 06, 2010 4:04 pm

It's a language problem.
In English there apparently are no specific words to make the difference between what f.i. the Alps are and what the Dolomites are. Both seem to be ranges.


could be a language thing - realistically, i would argue that the term 'chain of mountains' is not really used in english - in spanish, perhaps, the Alps are a Cordillera and the Dolomites are a Cordon - i can't say for italian, french, german, etc.
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Postby JackCarr » Thu May 06, 2010 8:15 pm

Diego Sahagún wrote:But Caucasus has the roof of Europe, Elbrus (5643 m). Its summit is entirely in Russia. At least 9 European mountains in Caucasus are higher than Mont Blanc (4810 m):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus_Mountains

I'd say that The Alps are the most important massif in Western Europe


Altitude means nothing.

Ben Nevis? One of, if not the most 'important' winter climbing area in the world.
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Postby visentin » Thu May 06, 2010 8:24 pm

JackCarr wrote:Ben Nevis? One of, if not the most 'important' winter climbing area in the world.

Certainly one of them, but before saying the most make sure you know everything about the others, and not only Chamonix.
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Postby Diego Sahagún » Fri May 07, 2010 1:51 am

Neither the topic is what is the most important winter climbing area in the world
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Postby Diego Sahagún » Fri May 07, 2010 1:53 am

paisajeroamericano wrote:
It's a language problem.
In English there apparently are no specific words to make the difference between what f.i. the Alps are and what the Dolomites are. Both seem to be ranges.


could be a language thing - realistically, i would argue that the term 'chain of mountains' is not really used in english - in spanish, perhaps, the Alps are a Cordillera and the Dolomites are a Cordon - i can't say for italian, french, german, etc.

Cordón :?: It is very rarely used for ranges here in Spain. Concerning mountaineering un cordón is that:

Image

Though it could mean a series of hills or mountains.
Transladed from there: http://www.wordreference.com/definicion/cord%C3%B3n
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Postby JackCarr » Sat May 08, 2010 12:45 am

Diego Sahagún wrote:Neither the topic is what is the most important winter climbing area in the world


No but it was a perfectly good analogy proving that altitude should be one of the least determining factors when picking an 'important' mountain or range.

Importance and altitude do not go hand in hand. Quality of climbing is far more important.
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Postby WouterB » Sat May 08, 2010 11:31 am

1. Caucasus
2. The Alps
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Postby Arthur Digbee » Sat May 08, 2010 1:02 pm

JackCarr wrote:Importance and altitude do not go hand in hand. Quality of climbing is far more important.


And geography, in the sense of being close to a lot of wealthy people with time on their hands. Would the British mountains be "important" if they were anywhere else?

The Alps present the same story, important because they're surrounded by wealthy countries. The Caucasus? Not so much. Perhaps if we had more Russian climbers on SP they would make a more effective lobby for the Caucasus over the Alps.
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Postby JackCarr » Sat May 08, 2010 3:11 pm

Arthur Digbee wrote:
JackCarr wrote:Importance and altitude do not go hand in hand. Quality of climbing is far more important.


And geography, in the sense of being close to a lot of wealthy people with time on their hands. Would the British mountains be "important" if they were anywhere else?

The Alps present the same story, important because they're surrounded by wealthy countries. The Caucasus? Not so much. Perhaps if we had more Russian climbers on SP they would make a more effective lobby for the Caucasus over the Alps.


Well access is a pretty obvious measure of importance yeah.

To me a mountain range is important if it contains numerous mountains significant in the sport of mountaineering - which the Alps has in abundance. The main argument for the Caucasus seems to be because it has the highest mountain in Europe (though I'm very much in the camp that while politically it may be European, it's geographically and culturally far more Asian) which is significant for only one endeavour - the seven summits.

I'm not disputing the Caucasus is an important range, but as I said before, mountaineering as a concept and as a sport was born in the Alps. Its ease of access shouldn't be held against it.
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Postby Ski Mountaineer » Sat May 08, 2010 3:27 pm

JackCarr wrote:(though I'm very much in the camp that while politically it may be European, it's geographically and culturally far more Asian)


Have you ever been there or are you familiar with the Caucasian history?
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Postby Diego Sahagún » Sun May 09, 2010 10:16 am

BorutKantuser wrote:
Diego Sahagún wrote:... Karavanke could be considered part of The Alps


What exactly do you mean by "could"?

BK

Could is the preterite and conditional of can. Use can if you don't like could. BTW, there are a few ranges in Spain longer than Karavanke though some of them are called sistemas.

Dolomites are in the Alps as well
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Postby yatsek » Sun May 09, 2010 12:17 pm

BorutKantuser wrote:Hello yatsek and ya'll!

We're having an amusing chat on a neighbouring thread about the relative "importance" of ranges in Europe. Maybe you could help out with some definitions in English. In Slovenian there is a difference between a "gorstvo" (f.i.the Alps) and a "gorovje" (f.i. the Dolomites). Is there a differenciation which could be had in English? Is there a such differenciation in Polish?

The next term (<importance> wise) is "gorska skupina" which probably translates to "mountain Group". As for this 3rd one/gorska skupina/, I personally would tend to say: massif. Though I understand that a geological "massif" seems to refer to tectonics, and to something much larger.

My main concern is about the eventual difference which could be formulated between a "gorstvo" and a "gorovje". HELP :) :lol:

BK

It seems to be more or less :lol: like this:

English/Slovenian/Polish

range (chain/system)/gorstvo/łańcuch: Alps/Carpathians

subrange (range/group)/gorovje/pasmo: Dolomites/Tatras

group (massif)/skupina/grupa (masyw): Pale di San Martino/Czerwone Wierchy

8) :lol:
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Postby yatsek » Sun May 09, 2010 12:53 pm

visentin wrote:After the Alps of Course.

:?: :?: :?:

1 Carpathians

2 Kitten Mts

Image
(photo by Visentin) :lol:
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Postby visentin » Mon May 10, 2010 12:51 pm

Haven't been there yet ! The next planned ones are Maly Snieznik, Klodka Gora and Medvedi Vrch
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Postby nartreb » Mon May 10, 2010 10:08 pm

Indeed, only SP definitions are important:

range

massif
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