As CClaude said, if you climb in the Gunks a lot, you get used to the style and ratings. Lots of jugs and good feet. I'd say Horseman feels like a .4 if you don't get sketched out on the traverse, but there is also a direct variation which is a .6. Gunks is known for impressive roofs on moderates that look impossible from the ground, but most have weaknesses that are easy if you don't mind some air under your feet. I also think visiting climbers get psyched out because you have to climb way above the protection on cruxes.

CClaude wrote: Now the thing up the slab to its right with 3 bolts in the many pitches I won't touch and that is suppose to be 5.9 ..... When I moved to the West Coast I was doing 5.10X routes, and I wouldn't touch that thing, and 14 years later I still won't.

Really?......................No Comment other than there are lines with a far bigger pucker factor over to the far right...Gray Ghost ring a bell?

The Chief wrote:

CClaude wrote: Now the thing up the slab to its right with 3 bolts in the many pitches I won't touch and that is suppose to be 5.9 ..... When I moved to the West Coast I was doing 5.10X routes, and I wouldn't touch that thing, and 14 years later I still won't.

Really?......................No Comment other than there are lines with a far bigger pucker factor over to the far right...Gray Ghost ring a bell?

My synapses are getting old and don't remember Grey Ghosts, but thats what I like about Tuolumne, big pucker factors come in small (and huge) packages.

I started climbing in The Gunks in 1972. Horseman was my second climb, first lead. I recall being told it was 5.4 at the time.

That seems about right considering that Dirty Gerdie, a hop skip and a jump to the south, is 5.8.

We used to top rope Dirty Gerdie, but I never got around to leading it 'till 2006. It was pretty funny, when the old guy walked up and threw his rope out at the start pretty much all of the Uberfall action came to a stop until I sent.

^^^ impressive lead considering how polished that rock is and how scary the pins are

I once saw a guy lead Nurdie Gerdie (5.10 face climb left of the arete). I don't know if you remember but high up the climb the crux is this high reach finger pocket. This guys hooks it with his thumb and mantels on it - that was one mighty strong thumb!