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Postby CClaude » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:45 am

mconnell wrote:
CClaude wrote:Unfortunately they say it could take up to 100yrs for the burned areas to recover


I guess that would depend on your definition of "recover". Plants and wildlife will return within a couple of years. It might not be the "same" for 100 years but so what? Things will always change. (BTW, I live a couple of miles from the site of the Hayman fire so I know how much things are changed by big fires, but changed does not mean destroyed. Only the man-made stuff is destroyed, not the land.)

BTW, the anger shouldn't be directed at the person with the campfire. Fires like that one, the Hayman fire, the Yellowstone fire, etc. are a result of people thinking that they can control nature.


There is the normal course of nature and then their are stupid yahoo's. I can deal with the dry lightning strikes, since that is the course of nature. The yahoo's with the toy hauler, the ATV, the 5 kegs of beer and the fireworks in a region that is bone dry with high winds is totally moronic. We (the town of Flagstaff) are totally grateful for the job the Hotshot crews did, since the terrain and the explosive nature of the fire on the first two days, they could have easily paid for their work with their lives. I'm friends with some Hotshots and that job is totally underappreciated, underpaid for a group of people totally overworked during some seasons.

The day the fire started, the winds on the flats were 25-35mph and where the fire started it was significantly higher (as reported by an intern who was working for me who actually saw the campfire that started the whole thing go from a campfire to a full fledged forest fire in seconds from 100yrds away). The area was tinder dry. Also the day before a major fire had blown up in minutes, and on the day of the fire, in the time from I went home in the afternoon from climbing to when I checked on some work at work, I watched 3 other fires start within miles of each other (all human caused).

When I say the damage will take 100-200yrs to recover, the initial burn zone was nearly completely sterilized since not only could you see the tree's explode from my house 5-7 miles away, but the updrafts went 20K-30K ft into the air. The term 100-200yr recover is based on terms used by a co-worker who used to be on the forest service fire crew, and not a typical touroid. We now have the monsoons coming in and the forest crew are now concerned of mudslides in the burn zone.

Now this is down range of the burn zone (in Doney Park which is not the neighborhood I live in)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqRypmRw ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1JM3Wa6Jo0


which is a no brainer, forest fire, and then rains.... usually not a good combination.... As I say, lightning stikes causing fire, I can deal with it,... but the humidity usually comes up and the fire usually isn't as explosive as when the humidity is 5% and the winds are 30-45mph.
Last edited by CClaude on Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Clark_Griswold » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:34 pm

CClaude wrote:
mconnell wrote:
CClaude wrote:Unfortunately they say it could take up to 100yrs for the burned areas to recover


I guess that would depend on your definition of "recover". Plants and wildlife will return within a couple of years. It might not be the "same" for 100 years but so what? Things will always change. (BTW, I live a couple of miles from the site of the Hayman fire so I know how much things are changed by big fires, but changed does not mean destroyed. Only the man-made stuff is destroyed, not the land.)

BTW, the anger shouldn't be directed at the person with the campfire. Fires like that one, the Hayman fire, the Yellowstone fire, etc. are a result of people thinking that they can control nature.


There is the normal course of nature and then their are stupid yahoo's. I can deal with the dry lightning strikes, since that is the course of nature. The yahoo's with the toy hauler, the ATV, the 5 kegs of beer and the fireworks in a region that is bone dry with high winds is totally moronic. We (the town of Flagstaff) are totally grateful for the job the Hotshot crews did, since the terrain and the explosive nature of the fire on the first two days, they could have easily paid for their work with their lives. I'm friends with some Hotshots and that job is totally underappreciated, underpaid for a group of people totally overworked during some seasons.

The day the fire started, the winds on the flats were 25-35mph and where the fire started it was significantly higher (as reported by an intern who was working for me who actually saw the campfire that started the whole thing go from a campfire to a full fledged forest fire in seconds from 100yrds away). The area was tinder dry. Also the day before a major fire had blown up in minutes, and on the day of the fire, in the time from I went home in the afternoon from climbing to when I checked on some work at work, I watched 3 other fires start within miles of each other (all human caused).

When I say the damage will take 100-200yrs to recover, the initial burn zone was nearly completely sterilized since not only could you see the tree's explode from my house 5-7 miles away, but the updrafts went 20K-30K ft into the air. The term 100-200yr recover is based on terms used by a co-worker who used to be on the forest service fire crew, and not a typical touroid. We now have the monsoons coming in and the forest crew are now concerned of mudslides in the burn zone.


Yeah, I had a great view of the smoke column while I was hiking in the Inner Basin up to the Main Cirque that day.

The thing about recovery, is that it means totally different things to different people. Recover to what, basically? Virtually none of the areas that burned looked like they did 100 years ago as they did on the day of the fire. The ponderosa was way over stocked, and hadn't burned in years, probably decades or more. The thinning plans had been stopped in 2007 by the Center For Biodiversity, an environmental law firm, I mean environmental interest group, or what ever. The FS has maps, that you can find on their website, which included almost all of the non-wilderness (what a joke) on and east of the Peaks in prescribed burns. Those burns never happened. Hell, the 89 Mesa Fire from May looks a lot better than the Schultz, it almost seems ashamed they didn't let that go on its own.

So recover to what? A lot of the flat areas will have native grasses that in a few years will establish a prairie of sorts under the dead trees. Aspen on the hills above the Water Line Rd will begin to come in thick, and while it will be a long time before ponderosa pine are growing up in that area, it seems to me that an open, diverse prairie is far better than the too dense pines we had there. If it isn't grazed, I mean over grazed, it will be able to be one of the few areas around here where the native herbaceous plants can flourish and appear as they did 150 years ago. I just hope they don't salvage log the area. Prices are low and they can't get people to buy the normal sales (for thinning) that we have around here, so burned trees probably won't be attractive. Operating heavy equipment over the area really won't do much to help it recover, in fact studies from the PNW have shown it hinders forest recovery after a fire like this. In the end, the area won't be as bad as you might think, and 5 years from now it might be a really nice area. The biggest issue is erosion. Hopefully the control efforts are effective in containing that.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/condit ... p-2010.jpg
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Postby Sierra Ledge Rat » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:20 am

Here's the view from my back deck. It's not the Sierra Nevada, only the beloved hills of West Virginia. It's all I have right now.

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Postby Holsti97 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:20 am

From directly behind my house:
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Postby Noondueler » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:41 am

Sierra Ledge Rat wrote:Here's the view from my back deck. It's not the Sierra Nevada, only the beloved hills of West Virginia. It's all I have right now.

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Looks pretty damn mellow to me Rat. I'll take that view any day.
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Postby vancouver islander » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:14 pm

From my front garden:

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Postby Diego Sahagún » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:36 pm

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Postby James_W » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:37 am

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Headwaters of the Wind River, Wyoming, USA

Postby Doublecabin » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:31 pm

Monday night July 5, 2010. Pinnacle Buttes & Continental Divide. Dunoir Valley, Fremont County, WY.

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