My first summer is the Valley I climbed alot with a guy who climbed primarily at the Gunks. He climbed fine except he was really wanting at crack climbing, which he freely admitted.

Having said that, it probably depends on the route you're looking at and the type of climbing it involves. I hope this doesn't sound elitist, but if you're climbing 5.7, that probably should be fine since a 5.7 crack will likely have lots more edges and other features that you can exploit rather than forcing you to climb the crack exclusively the way, say, a 5.10 crack in the Valley might.

What routes were you looking at? Many of the people who've responded to this thread may have climbed the routes you're considering.

It's been my experience that wherever you're coming from & going to, if you're unfamiliar with a given area, just start a couple of grades below what you're used to to get a feel for the place you're unfamiliar with. You can always work up from there.

fatdad wrote:My first summer is the Valley I climbed alot with a guy who climbed primarily at the Gunks. He climbed fine except he was really wanting at crack climbing, which he freely admitted.

Having said that, it probably depends on the route you're looking at and the type of climbing it involves. I hope this doesn't sound elitist, but if you're climbing 5.7, that probably should be fine since a 5.7 crack will likely have lots more edges and other features that you can exploit rather than forcing you to climb the crack exclusively the way, say, a 5.10 crack in the Valley might.

What routes were you looking at? Many of the people who've responded to this thread may have climbed the routes you're considering.

I'm primarily looking at Venusian Blind on Temple or East Butt on Whitney. Any beta especially on snow conditions on the Temple approach or the Mountaineer's descent on Whitney would be very welcome.

FWIW the only longish alpine route of comparable difficulty I've lead was the north ridge of Spearhead in RMNP which I was pretty comfortable with.

E. Butt of Whitney is pretty straightforward, especially if you avoid the 5.8 direct start. There's that 5.7 face section that gives some people pause, but you can avoid it or protect it reasonably well by threading slings thru the fixed pins. One tip: don't uprope too early. Some people unrope do and solo the 4th class at the top, but (even though I've soloed that part before) it's really exposed and when I went back with a partner, I asked him to break out the rope.

Haven't done Venusian but I've done Moon Goddess. I've heard there's lots a fair bit of loose rock.

Have you considered some other trade routes like Conness' N. Ridge or Cathedral's SE Butt? Equally good climbing, much shorter approach and probably less loose rock (at least than Temple Crag).

Hey KG, I'm comfortable on 5.5 at the gunks and can get up 5.6. I just did two 5.6 routes in the sierras that I was totally fine on difficulty wise.
The route finding is a good bit different and takes some getting used to, but grades are 1 easier out here IMO.
Eric

bird wrote:Hey KG, I'm comfortable on 5.5 at the gunks and can get up 5.6. I just did two 5.6 routes in the sierras that I was totally fine on difficulty wise.
The route finding is a good bit different and takes some getting used to, but grades are 1 easier out here IMO.
Eric

Great! What route did you do? I'll have 4-5 days out there so I'm thinking of warming up on a route with a short approach like NE Butt of Cathedral, and then backpacking in to do either Temple or Whitney.

Be aware that the crux of the Sunshine Peewee route (E buttress) is not well protected- this shows it: http://www.summitpost.org/image/532218/ ... image.html. Another option on Whitney is the East face- not as sustained as the buttress, it is still a lot of fun, there are a few sections with significant exposure, it is historically significant, less crowded than the buttress, & the cruxes are well-protected.

While I haven't done the Venusion Blind, I haven't heard that this is a problem on that route. Just something to think about if you have to choose. Also, the scenery around Temple Crag is stunning. If you're up for it, you could also consider something up the canyon from there (Swiss Arete, North Pal, ...). Be safe & have fun!

SE buttress of Cathedral is crowded but great. A little-traveled classic (at least as good as Cathedral) is the NE (?) buttress of Tenaya Peak (simul or solo for most of it- fast movement a plus!)- don't know what conditions are like on it right now, though.

Diggler wrote:Be aware that the crux of the Sunshine Peewee route (E buttress) is not well protected- this shows it: http://www.summitpost.org/image/532218/ ... image.html. Another option on Whitney is the East face- not as sustained as the buttress, it is still a lot of fun, there are a few sections with significant exposure, it is historically significant, less crowded than the buttress, & the cruxes are well-protected.

That's the exact section I was referring to. Like someone commented on the linked photo, you can thread a sling thru the fixed pin for decent pro. Or you can just avoid that section by climbing off to the right.

The E. Face is, I think, a great route. Lots of 3rd and 4th class up the Giant Staircase but on the whole I think the route is airy and rewarding. Worth doing just as much as the E. Buttress. I think sometimes people get hung up on numbers and believe that if the E. Buttress is more sustained that it's must be better.

BTW, if your choice after doing Cathedral is Whitney or Temple Crag, do Whitney. While Temple Crag is great, the Venusian Blind is far from the best route on the crag. I think the main reason it's climbed with any frequency is that it was recently included in the Supertopo book. Before that it was just kind of the ugly sister to the Moon Goddess and Sun Ribbon.

As someone who climbed for 12 years in the gunks, daks and north conway and then moved west. In the Gunks I was climbing many of the Gunks 5.10's, a few .11's, and A LOT of the R/X rated 5.9's. Moving to California, my first year was about being SKOOL'ED BIG TIME on the Yosemite, Tuolumne and Sierra 5.9's and eventually 5.10's. That first year, I got my butt handed to me so many times I felt like a total newbie even though I had climbed maybe 20yrs by then.....It took me a while to get back to being on the 5.10's and 5.11's and before I could get proficient.

The more popular routes tend to be easy since people are looking for the 1 or 2 move wonder to pad their ego's but there are a lot of routes that make for a good ego spanking (which is a good thing). My suggestion is the routes in Super Taco, by in large will be straight forward, Temple Crag less so, and the Incrediable Hulk while a beautiful day out cragging shouldn't be under-estimated although the protection is straight forward.

Probably the smartest thing to do is if you climb 5.7/5.8 in the Gunks is find a route which has shorter sections of 5.7/5.8, to get used top the altitude, the more commiting experience of long approaches/descents, needing to move fast......

Or see for yourself like trying the Regular Route on Fairview. While easy/ well protected and close to the road, you'll get an idea of needing to be efficient at the whole process, and also a classic class 3 descent. That or maybe something even easier like Cathedral Peak. While something like Clyde Minaret may be appropriate at the end of a trip, you could also easily get in way over your head.

CClaude wrote:Or see for yourself like trying the Regular Route on Fairview. While easy/ well protected and close to the road, you'll get an idea of needing to be efficient at the whole process, and also a classic class 3 descent. That or maybe something even easier like Cathedral Peak. While something like Clyde Minaret may be appropriate at the end of a trip, you could also easily get in way over your head.

You're recommending a 12-pitch 5.9 & a serious ~11-pitch backcountry 5.8 with devious routefinding to a 5.7 leader??

Diggler wrote:

CClaude wrote:Or see for yourself like trying the Regular Route on Fairview. While easy/ well protected and close to the road, you'll get an idea of needing to be efficient at the whole process, and also a classic class 3 descent. That or maybe something even easier like Cathedral Peak. While something like Clyde Minaret may be appropriate at the end of a trip, you could also easily get in way over your head.

You're recommending a 12-pitch 5.9 & a serious ~11-pitch backcountry 5.8 with devious routefinding to a 5.7 leader??

Clyde while routefinding on the first couple pitches is serious (and I bypassed the traverse in and did the direct start) the upper sections is straight forward (but as I said you can EASILY get in over your head). For me it is the easiest backcountry route I've done (don't be fooled with that since it still is serious) in the Sierras, but two things. As I said, start with routes with smaller crux sections before routes with more continuous cruxes (ps: he added his post about being there 4 days when I was psoting , that or I didn't see it).
- it is continuous at the rating
- the descent is NOT straight forward

Regular Route of Fairview. First pitch is EASY 5.9 and WELL protected and nothing you can't pull through, and everything else is pretty moderate but a good long route. 12 pitchs? What are you talking about.... Don't ever remembering it being that long. I used to do it in a couple of hours in an afternoon, but it is a good indication of do you have your systems dialed. It is also a good indication of how you like a 3rd class descent (ie: the walk off the back of the dome, where I've seen many pretty good climbers freak out with the 3rd class descent.

I'd recommend a well protected route in Tuolumne (now how many of the routes that are moderate in Tuolumne are well protected? sort of a pun on words) then any back country route in the Sierras. While you can easily get F#CKED up big time in Tuolumne, the rock on most of the moderate routes is pretty bomber (not so for back country routes).

Most of the stuff I wrote is a warning. I came from the Gunks, and I've seen a lot of gunks climbers come out to the Sierras, and since the general attitude at the gunks is that the ratings "out west" are soft, if you climb 5.x at the gunks, expect tyo climb 5.(x+ something) out west. BIG mistake in attitude since you will get skooled.

Interesting. Just goes to show that everyone's experience is unique. I climbed in the Gunks from 1972-1981, did a lot of 5.8, .9, and some .10s. When I got to California I hung at about the same grade level while I got used to the different types of climbing but pretty quickly moved up in the grades. Now, whenever I go back to the Gunks I find the grading to be quite stiff and usually pull the throttle back at least a grade.

Last time I was there I decided to lead that short problem by the Uberfall there called Dirty Gerdie. 5.8+ (right...) Back in the 70's we used to TR it, and I wanted to lead it. It was quite something, all the ripped young boulderers stopped what they were doing to watch the show when an old stranger tossed down his rope at the base. I think that little face climb would be 5.10+ in Josh and 5.11 something at Red Rocks.

ksolem wrote:Interesting. Just goes to show that everyone's experience is unique. I climbed in the Gunks from 1972-1981, did a lot of 5.8, .9, and some .10s. When I got to California I hung at about the same grade level while I got used to the different types of climbing but pretty quickly moved up in the grades. Now, whenever I go back to the Gunks I find the grading to be quite stiff and usually pull the throttle back at least a grade.

Last time I was there I decided to lead that short problem by the Uberfall there called Dirty Gerdie. 5.8+ (right...) Back in the 70's we used to TR it, and I wanted to lead it. It was quite something, all the ripped young boulderers stopped what they were doing to watch the show when an old stranger tossed down his rope at the base. I think that little face climb would be 5.10+ in Josh and 5.11 something at Red Rocks.

Funny,

when I go back, it takes me 1 or 2 days to get used to the rock, (it has sooo much good friction compared to what I am used to now) and about a week to get used to the humidity (hell, I now think that 35% humidity is REALLY MUGGY). After that it just feels about right on.

I'll apologize for being snippey, but I get sort of tired of the attitude of the Gunks has grades that are hard and everything else is easy. (Its funny since I know the attitude since I once lived there). Learning trad in the Gunks is a GREAT place to learn trad and become very proficient at it. Some of the best climbers in the US have come from there in the past. But it won't teach you some things like crack climbing, efficiency of moving fast on technical terrain after a long approch and finishing with a long descent. You can practice 15-20 pitch days at the gunks , and then do a 2-9 mile hike before and afterwords, but in reality most people won't.

A guide at the Gunks had contacted me looking for a partner to do the East Butt of Middle Cathedral years ago. He had the ability but I ended up leading everything and he got totally freaked out on the descent, as the descent route had just been recently pounded by rockfall. I felt bad for him since he was a really nice guy, but that is part of the experience.

If you are new to an area, set your sites back a little bit and be a bit conservative. Its better to have a good time then to epic through things if you have a short time. It will take you a bit of time to get used to things. Cathedral Peak would be a good objective As I say, until you get used to long days, moving fast on technical terrain, look for objectives with short technical sections

kheegster wrote:

bird wrote:Hey KG, I'm comfortable on 5.5 at the gunks and can get up 5.6. I just did two 5.6 routes in the sierras that I was totally fine on difficulty wise.
The route finding is a good bit different and takes some getting used to, but grades are 1 easier out here IMO.
Eric

Great! What route did you do? I'll have 4-5 days out there so I'm thinking of warming up on a route with a short approach like NE Butt of Cathedral, and then backpacking in to do either Temple or Whitney.

I did Cathedral. It was a great climb, I had no problem leading it. The route has a bit of everything, cracks, chimney, friction, knobby face climbing. Be careful on the down climb off the summit. My partner placed a couple of pieces of pro for me to "down lead", even though it's "class 4". And there are rap anchors in a couple of the trees on the slabby part of the down climbing. (But not off the summit). Don't forget your camera if you climb it.

Diggler wrote:
SE buttress of Cathedral is crowded but great. A little-traveled classic (at least as good as Cathedral) is the NE (?) buttress of Tenaya Peak (simul or solo for most of it- fast movement a plus!)- don't know what conditions are like on it right now, though.

Tenaya had snow on the crux as of July 10 or 11. Lots of snow this year and several of the routes we wanted to do still had snow. Keep that in mind, check on whitney portal and see if there is snow on the approach to the East Butt.