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First woman to climb 8000m peaks stripped of title

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Postby Ejnar Fjerdingstad » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:48 pm

dadndave wrote:I suppose she could claim she was carrying two flags, a Korean one and a Black Yak one. But why would you drag the Korean flag out of yer jacket short of the summit but still have your sponsor's flag about your person when you got up there?

I might have missed something here, though. I can't see where it is claimed which flag was found short of the summit. If it was the "Black Yak" flag, well that's pretty much it.

It's a shame in so many ways. I wish I had it in me to get within a handful of metres of the top of Kangchenjunga, so, in my book she's done an amazing thing which I envy. So sad to diminish it by getting carried away with list bagging (if that's what happened)

Oh yeah, and fish were swimming around the Himalayan summits long before mankind dragged himself out of the primordial swamp and sat down to watch TV. :D


By then there was no Himalya, nor any summits, so that any claim by fish is highly doubtful! :wink:
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Postby TimmyC » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:55 pm

Alpinist wrote:Yeah but what I don't get is why the Chief has to shit on other people's accomplishments. What's the point of that? Or is he just trolling for a response?

Whatever...


Listen, I've had an AWESOME summer full of great climbs, many of which I've recorded here on SP in climber's logs. None of the peaks I've summitted this summer are much over 7000' and only one of them was an actual technical climb -- and that one weighed in at a monstrous 5.4ish. Would it devastate me if someone belittled my accomplishment? Hell no. I'm much too pleased with my return to health, with the fact that I can now climb not just a flight of stairs without wheezing and sweating but entire mountains (Baring!! w00t!!!), and with the fact that I'm living up to a promise I made to myself to not be a fat, diabetic, desk jockey anymore.

When one brings one's accomplishments out into public view -- especially when that view is the global newsmedia -- one stands to account for a lot of scrutiny, and varying amounts of that scrutiny is fair or pleasant. The global climbing community, as anyone who posts on SP's forums know with crystal clarity, is almost unbelievably demanding. Depending on how you Venn yourself, "demanding" is easily interchangeable with "shitty." Americans shit on French accomplishments. Men shit on women's accomplishments. Trads shit on sporties' accomplishments. Everyone shits on boulderers' accomplishments (but, like the mad monkeys they are, they throw the shit right back).

Did this lady actually summit? Who knows. But the very split second her accomplishment came into question, it became the climbing community's sacred right to start tearing her down. No one who climbs at that level can claim ignorance of this.

Is it right? Is it fair? No, of course it isn't.

You'll notice I avoid wading into the dangerous waters of who gets more torn-down than whom, because, again, this is a subjective matter based on which demographic you choose as your own.

I read way more than I post here because entering the fray so rarely seems worth it ("Women in climbing," anyone?). But every now and again, there's a frickin' gem of a response that needs me to say "hey, that was really great, thanks." If you graph out who posts on the forums against total membership, you'll find that a disproportionally small number of members make the VAST majority of posts. Much of it is spray, but, every now and again, there's gold, and it can't be found anywhere but buried in the lunatic rantings of rabid SP poster.

Alpinist, you know this. You post here enough to not be able to say something like "I had no idea The Chief was so full of bile and vitriol." Of course he is. He's the Chief. But for all the chest-beating and huffing and puffing he does, there is frickin' gold buried in that crazy brain, and through quiet observation of the forums, it can be teased out and we're all richer for it.

Most of the time, I don't respond to threads like this one because of my severe brevity impairment (a disability I've lived with since I learned to speak) and an allergy to TLDR. But the rest of the time it's because I have nothing constructive to add, and pissing back at someone who's being intentionally shitty doesn't do anything except whip up a frenzy of unneeded anger at no one. As an unintended consequence of this new form of social interaction, many people these days use forums to work out personal issues that in previous generations would have remained buried or that would have required professional help. The Chief has been quite forward about some of the help he's receiving, and many here have supported him. To that end, while it's not my style, I have to at the very least agree with his intent in trying to work to become a better, more whole human being through his interactions here.

Is The Chief being a dick in this case? Yeah, clearly, but whatever. It'll never get back to Ms. Maybe-she-did-maybe-she-didn't. Don't let it bring you down. Go outside today, breathe some non-recycled air, revel in Nature's wonder, behold the majesty of our beautiful world, letting insignificant things like this fall away from you.

Plus, I mean really, The Chief climbs aid, and, as everyone knows, aid climbers are f#ckin' nuts, man.
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Postby Alpinist » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:16 pm

Novak2 wrote:
Alpinist wrote:Yeah but what I don't get is why the Chief has to shit on other people's accomplishments. What's the point of that? Or is he just trolling for a response?


Who are you asking?
Asking US?

It was a rhetorical question. However, if your rabbit wants to answer it... :wink:
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Postby mrchad9 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:23 pm

The Chief wrote:
Alpinist wrote:When is it not a big deal to climb all of the 8000m peaks? That is a great accomplishment. I doubt your climbing accomplishments compare to either of these 2 women. Anyone who has climbed all of the 8000m peaks definitely deserves some respect. And the first woman to do it has indeed done something very special.

Like I said, BFD! Neither of those women have ever climbed a a Grade V A5 Route. Thus, in my book, BFD!
Until they do so, they ain't shit.
Jest of my point, so fking what if they are the FIRST women to climb all 8K meter hills on this planet.
It is all relative to ones ambitions and aspirations in this game.

I think you guys are missing really what the point of Chief's first post was, which was NOT to put down the accomplishments of people who have climbed 8000 meter peaks.

It was that being the first to do so, or the first woman to do so, does not add to the accomplishment, and I agree. Edurne Pasaban's effort is no more or less significant as a result of Oh Eun-Sun making or not making it first. Pasaban's actions were the same in either scenario, and to put Pasaban down because she was second and not first is to rob her of the respect you claim is warranted.

Climbing them all is a nice accomplishment. To do it first is NOT very special.
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Postby phlipdascrip » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:27 pm

TimmyC wrote:[lots of stuff]

Well put! Sometimes I wonder if people BS each other for the fun of it (...) or because of such a lack of confidence that they actually care so much about the "opinions" of people they don't even know.
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Postby Alpinist » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:28 pm

I agree with your post mostly with a few corrections (in red) below. :mrgreen:

TimmyC wrote:
Alpinist wrote:Yeah but what I don't get is why the Chief has to shit on other people's accomplishments. What's the point of that? Or is he just trolling for a response?

Whatever...


Listen, I've had an AWESOME summer full of great climbs, many of which I've recorded here on SP in climber's logs. None of the peaks I've summitted this summer are much over 7000' and only one of them was an actual technical climb -- and that one weighed in at a monstrous 5.4ish. Would it devastate me if someone belittled my accomplishment? Hell no. I'm much too pleased with my return to health, with the fact that I can now climb not just a flight of stairs without wheezing and sweating but entire mountains (Baring!! w00t!!!), and with the fact that I'm living up to a promise I made to myself to not be a fat, diabetic, desk jockey anymore.

When one brings one's accomplishments out into public view -- especially when that view is the global newsmedia -- one stands to account for a lot of scrutiny, and varying amounts of that scrutiny is fair or pleasant. The global climbing community, as anyone who posts on SP's forums know with crystal clarity, is almost unbelievably demanding. Depending on how you Venn yourself, "demanding" is easily interchangeable with "shitty." Egocentric assholes shit on French accomplishments. Egocentric assholes shit on women's accomplishments. Egocentric assholes shit on sporties' accomplishments. Egocentric assholes shits on boulderers' accomplishments (but, like the mad monkeys they are, they throw the shit right back).

Did this lady actually summit? Who knows. But the very split second her accomplishment came into question, it became the climbing community's sacred right to start tearing her down. No one who climbs at that level can claim ignorance of this.

I have no problem with people challenging Oh's claim and tearing her down if she lied. However, the insults were directed at the accomplishment of being the first woman to climb the 8000m peaks, which at least one or both of the women have done. That is absolutely a worthy achievement and deserving of respect.

Is it right? Is it fair? No, of course it isn't.

You'll notice I avoid wading into the dangerous waters of who gets more torn-down than whom, because, again, this is a subjective matter based on which demographic you choose as your own.

I read way more than I post here because entering the fray so rarely seems worth it ("Women in climbing," anyone?). But every now and again, there's a frickin' gem of a response that needs me to say "hey, that was really great, thanks." If you graph out who posts on the forums against total membership, you'll find that a disproportionally small number of members make the VAST majority of posts. Much of it is spray, but, every now and again, there's gold, and it can't be found anywhere but buried in the lunatic rantings of rabid SP poster.

Alpinist, you know this. You post here enough to not be able to say something like "I had no idea The Chief was so full of bile and vitriol." Of course he is. He's the Chief. But for all the chest-beating and huffing and puffing he does, there is frickin' gold buried in that crazy brain, and through quiet observation of the forums, it can be teased out and we're all richer for it.

Brilliance and/or climbing like a God does not excuse poor behavior.

Most of the time, I don't respond to threads like this one because of my severe brevity impairment (a disability I've lived with since I learned to speak) and an allergy to TLDR. But the rest of the time it's because I have nothing constructive to add, and pissing back at someone who's being intentionally shitty doesn't do anything except whip up a frenzy of unneeded anger at no one. As an unintended consequence of this new form of social interaction, many people these days use forums to work out personal issues that in previous generations would have remained buried or that would have required professional help. The Chief has been quite forward about some of the help he's receiving, and many here have supported him. To that end, while it's not my style, I have to at the very least agree with his intent in trying to work to become a better, more whole human being through his interactions here.

Is The Chief being a dick in this case? Yeah, clearly, but whatever. It'll never get back to Ms. Maybe-she-did-maybe-she-didn't. Don't let it bring you down. Go outside today, breathe some non-recycled air, revel in Nature's wonder, behold the majesty of our beautiful world, letting insignificant things like this fall away from you.

Me, down? I don't get down for such trivial reasons. Nor do I get riled EVER. I'm the most grounded guy you'll ever meet, virtually or in person. The Chief made some foolish comments and I called him on it. Nuf said.

Plus, I mean really, The Chief climbs aid, and, as everyone knows, aid climbers are f#ckin' nuts, man.
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Postby mrchad9 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:29 pm

FortMental wrote:she should have to prove the following:

1) That she is a woman.


First woman to climb 8000m peaks stripped...
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Postby TimmyC » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:35 pm

phlipdascrip wrote:
TimmyC wrote:[lots of stuff]

Well put! Sometimes I wonder if people BS each other for the fun of it (...) or because of such a lack of confidence that they actually care so much about the "opinions" of people they don't even know.


PA FTmfW!!!
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Postby Dow Williams » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:31 pm

FortMental wrote:1) That she is a woman.


Proving #1 should be easy.


Obviously you have not paid much attention to the world of track and field recently...
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