I was about to write some lofty response but SP ate it See you at the crag Vittles

Gary Schenk wrote:

FortMental wrote:As a group we acknowledge that climbing with oxygen doesn't mean you actually climbed the mountain under your own power.

We do?

Of course! If you look at old threads on Romero and Everest, you will see that the SP masses decided:

1) It was irresponsible to let him climb Everest, as he might suffer brain damage.
2) If he climbed it at all, he would have to do so without supplemental O2 and guarantee brain damage, otherwise we wouldn't consider the climb worthy.

Hi Vitally it's just human nature. If you set yourself up as an arbiter of rules, deciding who conforms and who deserves ridicule, then you are begging for folks to troll through your trip reports and find instances where you don't exactly match the rules you are setting up.

Anyway, doesn't anybody feel creepy about a thread of perfectly healthy people pissing and moaning about severely handicapped people doing things in the mountains? Those of us without those handicaps are so damned lucky in life!!! You think it's the best use of our time grumbling about whether one of those people had their fingers on rock most of the time or on rope? Or that they had people there (maybe less self-centered climbers) to help them? Until I'm laying in a bed realizing I'm never going to walk again I'll stick to criticizing people with as many usable limbs as myself. I recognize I may have trouble seeing their perspective.

Vitaliy and I have climbed together and have some acquaintances in common. A little friendly ribbing is all it is

Anyway, here's an article by Steve Muse, the first quad to climb El Cap -

http://www.newmobility.com/articleView.cfm?id=11636

Day Four

Today I will belay Tommy as he leads the Nipple. I'm glad to at least do that for all the work those two are doing. I'm starting to feel guilty. The belay device I'm using, a Trango Cinch, only requires me to feed out some rope once in a while as the climber moves up, but I'm taking photographs and not seeming to pay attention, and Tommy is getting pissed. He's leading out the roof toward the Nipple and standing on a black Alien cam while whacking in a pin when the piece he's on blows. I can hear him exhale when the rope is taut, but he's OK. I catch his fall with the softest dynamic belay he can get from my paralyzed body. He laughs, says, "Thanks Museman," jugs back to his high point and continues on. Tommy caresses the giant nipple as he passes by and out of sight, tag line blowing in the wind in a huge arc.

I had the opportunity to be on his ground crew in 2008, but I was recovering from my own spinal cord injury at the time and felt a little inadequate. btw I think there is a pic on SP somewhere of Steve on El Cap prior to his accident.

Did anyone really think all there is to it just to go to the top of El Cap, throw down a 2000' rope (first yelling rooooope ! ) and the disabled person starts jugging ?

The final paragraph -

I have been a climber for over 20 years and managed to do 16 big walls as a nondisabled climber. This one, number 17, my first as a gimp, is the most memorable and the best climb I have ever done. Not because it was exceptionally difficult, but because it brought me back to a place I never thought I could return to — and be with the people I love.

Pretty cool story...

Vitaliy M wrote:

mvs wrote:Hi Vitally it's just human nature. If you set yourself up as an arbiter of rules, deciding who conforms and who deserves ridicule, then you are begging for folks to troll through your trip reports and find instances where you don't exactly match the rules you are setting up.

Anyway, doesn't anybody feel creepy about a thread of perfectly healthy people pissing and moaning about severely handicapped people doing things in the mountains? Those of us without those handicaps are so damned lucky in life!!! You think it's the best use of our time grumbling about whether one of those people had their fingers on rock most of the time or on rope? Or that they had people there (maybe less self-centered climbers) to help them? Until I'm laying in a bed realizing I'm never going to walk again I'll stick to criticizing people with as many usable limbs as myself. I recognize I may have trouble seeing their perspective.

Look at the thread's name. It id designed for people to give their opinions on 1st ascents and such. Threads evolve, and it got here (Not by my choice. I never pissed on his accomplishment..if you look at my comments I said I respect it very much).. It is a forum and it is up to individuals to talk or to shut up, just like it was the guy's choice to do El Cap after losing feelings in his lower extremities.
I was just kidding with Rob, he would be a last person to hurt my feelings, and last I would try to offend. Aside from that he is a very nice, knowledgeable guy, has some great will power, and one of the FEW people I actually respect from this site based on what he has done (awesome contributions in different Llamas threads and such ).

Okay sorry to misunderstand.

i plan to do my first lead this weekend. wish me luck : )

Just relax and trust yourself buddy, you will SEND.

DMT

Deleted User wrote:Just relax and trust yourself buddy, you will SEND.

DMT

So...
What's goin' down.
Miss you.

Like to hear more 'bout Ang & Ding.
And Jack London in New Jersey.
and de Wyde