For instance, if I wanted to climb Mt. Gilbert and I start at South Lake Trailhead, could I get there the night before, sleep in my truckbed, then get a super early alpine start to get done with the climb early the next day? Legally that is. If the big, bad PO-PO saw me would I get in trouble? I've never been to that trailhead, but I'd also like to know if you could do the same thing at the Glacier Lodge overnight parking then park in the day section and do something in a day. These are both without wilderness permits. If you have the answer and share it with me you will be rewarded with great karma!

JJBrunner wrote:For instance, if I wanted to climb Mt. Gilbert and I start at South Lake Trailhead, could I get there the night before, sleep in my truckbed, then get a super early alpine start to get done with the climb early the next day? Legally that is.

Yes!

There isn't an issue of doing at the S-Lake PL for the Bishop Pass T/H. Just be discrete and low keyed. Simple.

The Chief wrote:

JJBrunner wrote:For instance, if I wanted to climb Mt. Gilbert and I start at South Lake Trailhead, could I get there the night before, sleep in my truckbed, then get a super early alpine start to get done with the climb early the next day? Legally that is.

Yes!

There isn't an issue of doing at the S-Lake PL for the Bishop Pass T/H. Just be discrete and low keyed. Simple.

Yep, I've done it dozens of times.

Cool, thank you guys. I'll just keep it low-key like you say. I'm sure the forest will find other ways to get its money from me

I've slept in my car dozens of times at trailheads and never had an issue.
Note the difference between "sleeping in your car" and "car camping in the parking lot".

If you are simply acclimating or wanting to get an early start and are crashing in the back of your truck then it is doubtful that you will have issues.

fedak wrote:I've slept in my car dozens of times at trailheads and never had an issue.
Note the difference between "sleeping in your car" and "car camping in the parking lot".

If you are simply acclimating or wanting to get an early start and are crashing in the back of your truck then it is doubtful that you will have issues.

Yep, I'd get there after dark and be on the trail very early. I don't know when it gets light but I'd probably start before then.

JJ, It's always possible but you have to keep low key. Good idea to ask.

I've not done it at this trail head but you can also just head off into the woods in many places. Keep it low impact.

In after 10PM up and out before dawn.

Yes, you can sleep in your vehicle. I often sleep in the back of my truck at Inyo National Forest Trailheads, and I have seen people sleeping next to their vehicle on the ground plenty of times. I have never seen anyone set up a tent next to their vehicle and sleep.

When I tried to sleep in Yosemite at a trailhead once, I was told by a park ranger to move outside the park and sleep in my truck in the Inyo National Forest because that was okay.

I doubt if it's officially okay, but it's unofficially okay.

I slept in my car in Mineral King (Sequoia NP) this past Friday night because all of the campgrounds were full. I was expecting to get a flashlight in the face from a ranger in the middle of the night telling me to move, but it never happened. I got there at 10pm and was out hiking by 5:15am. Maybe as long as you don't pitch a tent in the parking lot, they will look the other way???

I've slept in my truck a number of times in SEKI at trailheads including Mineral King without a problem. The only place I've had a problem is in Yosemite.

Like many of you I've crashed at the TH many times. Two weeks ago we did this at Agnew Meadows. We drove down past the gate after 7pm but came out around 8am and the forest service employee at the gate up top asked a couple good questions which we answered honestly and it became clear that we had camped at the TH. She then informed us that was not allowed and indicated she could/should give us a ticket for that! Instead she settled on charging us the $7/person "road access" fee which we thought we had avoided by entering late. We even went so far as to take the swing up to the Minaret Vista on the way out to avoid the gate. She didn't like that either! Threatened us with crossign a double soid line! We payed our $14 and went on our way!

Seems like it might not be kosher to sleep at the THs so as has been mentioned, be discrete!

pmorash wrote:Seems like it might not be kosher to sleep at the THs so as has been mentioned, be discrete!

And be discreet as well! Just joking. Thanks for the very useful info.

What you are referring to is called dispersed camping. Go to the Inyo NF site:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/

Select their camping sub-page and the dispersed camping link. I've been legally camping so 95% of the time for decades. There are lots of lower use trailheads where it is legal especially on any dirt roads. I dislike public campgrounds because I hate paying good money for the annoyance of others disrupting my sleep. Note sleeping inside a vehicle is considered camping though as some have noted, even within non-dispersed camping zones, in national forests, one is not likely to be rousted. Mainly because of lack of manpower versus the national parks. If stealth inside car sleeping at trailheads gets out of hand as in sleeping on the ground, tenting or RV parking, the FS is likely to do more than just roust a few people. Note it is illegal to do so along all roads in the Bishop Creek drainage above the old Inyo kiosk entrance station at about 7k way down in the sagebrush. Anyone that regularly disperse camps ought to have a forest service map that shows where that can be done.

I often camp and hike in Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest in Washington state. There are many official large car campgrounds, all of which charge fees. I talked to one of the rangers there who advised me that camping outside these official campgrounds is allowed almost anywhere. She even offered to tell me about some of the popular unofficial camping places. I often car camp (sleeping in the car) at trail heads and day use sites there, all of which have toilets and some also have picnic tables. Never any problem. Most need a NW forest pass, which I buy annually.

This situation made me think that there was a general policy about unofficial camping in national forests, as compared to national parks, state parks, county parks, etc. But perhaps the the comments on this page about Inyo NF indicate that the USFS does not have a general policy regarding such camping. Maybe Inyo is a special case. Maybe because Inyo and other national forests in California are more popular than those in the northwest.

On the other hand, I can think of some very popular trail heads in Mt Baker-Snoqualmie NF, such as Schreibers Meadow (south side of Mt Baker), where the enormous parking lots are filled to capacity on summer weekends, and I've seen many of the vehicles being used for overnight camping. The forest service even provides 2 free car campsites there.

Many roads leading to eastern Sierra trailheads have signs that say "CAMP ONLY IN DESIGNATED CAMPGROUNDS" or something to that effect.

Webster defines camping as making or occupying a camp. Camps involve tents, cabins, and the like. According to Webster, discretely sleeping in your car at a trailhead is not camping.

However, the USFS has seen fit to redefine the word "camp." If you read the fine print on the signs around trailheads and campgrounds, you may discover that any outdoor overnight occupancy of USFS land counts as camping. Sleeping in your car is therefore illegal at most trailheads.

I've been sleeping at trailheads since 1987. I initially slept in a camper. When I was temporarily out of work, I drove a Honda Civic to save gas, and I slept in a bivy sack. It worked so well that I quit driving the truck unless I needed 4WD. I now have a comfortable bed in a car that appears much too small for sleeping. I've slept at trailheads hundreds of times.

The only time I've ever been harassed was when a campground host extorted $10 from my wife while I was climbing Broken Finger Peak in 1993. We were parked in a space marked "HIKER PARKING" and he charged us for a campsite we never occupied. After months of phone calls and letters pointing out that this wasn't a "fee area," and that charging a fee there was illegal, we got our $10 back.

Bottom line: Be discrete. Don't set up a tent or do anything else that suggests that you plan to be at the trailhead for more than a few hours sleep. Don't make a mess or cause a lot of noise. In short, don't give anybody a reason to complain and spoil it for all of us.