The Chief wrote:Actually, my last trip up there just a couple of weeks ago, me and my partner carried out 16 shitbags.

Insane.

So how did you find 16 shitbags? Were they all sitting by the trail or did you have to go looking for them?

simonov wrote:

The Chief wrote:Actually, my last trip up there just a couple of weeks ago, me and my partner carried out 16 shitbags.

Insane.

So how did you find 16 shitbags? Were they all sitting by the trail or did you have to go looking for them?

They were all laying around within site at Iceberg, UBSL and on the trail.

That is nothing!

Last year at the same time, myself and my buddy carried out 27 on one trip.

I know for a fact that the local Trail LEO's have in fact carried out well over 100 from both trails this season alone.

Before the pack out provisions, I knew a guy who dug up and packed out poop from Lake Helen camp on Mt. Shasta. Frozen, it didn't smell so bad. Don't fall too hard skiing down, though.

Gary Schenk wrote:

MoapaPk wrote:If the Whitney Zone Adult Diaper requirement were enforced, we wouldn't have this problem.

We have a solution to the problem! I'm gonna bid on the Inyo NF Depends concession.

If you persist in getting NASA involved the costs will spiral out of control!

DMT

1000Pks wrote:Before the pack out provisions, I knew a guy who dug up and packed out poop from Lake Helen camp on Mt. Shasta.

He sounds like a pervert.

This kind of stuff is also garbage. It's all too often overused where none is neded in the first place. I collect it frequently.

If I have room in my pack, also collect regular garbage - cans, plastic, discarded clothing etc; everything except poo and paper.

It aways amazes me how many slobs there are out there. What must be in a person's mind to throw a plastic bottle on the ground in a pristine alpine environment? Beyond my understanding.

Dingus Milktoast wrote:

Gary Schenk wrote:Why is it smokers think the world is their ashtray?

Cause they can't stand the smell of their own bad habits.

DMT

Now you're just both full of shite. I'm a fairly heavy smoker, smoke easily half a pack to a pack a day in the wilderness, and much more in the pub, but I've never thrown a fag butt out. Not even in the city where I live, and if I'd see someone do it above treeline, they won't hear the end of that...

Anything that takes more than a few weeks to decompose naturally should be disposed of properly, no matter where you're at.

Clint.

OK, that's one responsible smoker. I know a couple of others. But on balance, given the trash I find and the cigarette butts I see flying out the windows of cars, chucked into gutters, etc... I am fully prepared to argue the merits of my case, counselor.

DMT

simonov wrote:So how did you find 16 shitbags? Were they all sitting by the trail or did you have to go looking for them?

The Chief wrote:They were all laying around within site at Iceberg, UBSL and on the trail.

That is nothing!

Last year at the same time, myself and my buddy carried out 27 on one trip.

I know for a fact that the local Trail LEO's have in fact carried out well over 100 from both trails this season alone.

Apparently California climbers are pigs. If you worked for the NF, you'd want to restrict their activities too.

It's noble of you to haul 'em out, Chief, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem.

Been to Singapore a few times. Big clean, beautiful city. And a very low law enforcement presence. It all works thanks to some very strict sentencing if laws are broken.

The only piece of trash I've ever seen on the street there was a cigarette butt.

Arthur Digbee wrote:It's noble of you to haul 'em out, Chief, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem.

Oh believe me, if I had my druthers, I know exactly how to solve the "underlying problem" of this modern day spoiled ass Entitlement Brigade that wonders into them hills and leaves their shit behind.

Easy fix:

The biggest problem with cigarette butts is the filter. The tobacco and paper are pretty biodegradable, yet the filter is made of cellulose acetate, essentially plastic. I've yet to see a conclusive study on how long it takes a filter to degrade; but I'm pretty certain that in a dry desert, the time is very long.

It is strange how so many people, otherwise meticulous, think that cigarettes are somehow exempt as litter. I once had a boss who dropped cigarette butts on the floor of our workplace, then would grind the residue under his heel to make sure it was "out."

MoapaPk wrote:The biggest problem with cigarette butts is the filter. The tobacco and paper are pretty biodegradable, yet the filter is made of cellulose acetate, essentially plastic. I've yet to see a conclusive study on how long it takes a filter to degrade; but I'm pretty certain that in a dry desert, the time is very long.

It is strange how so many people, otherwise meticulous, think that cigarettes are somehow exempt as litter. I once had a boss who dropped cigarette butts on the floor of our workplace, then would grind the residue under his heel to make sure it was "out."

The filter takes approx. 2 years to decompose in a humid marine west coast climate with an 11-month growing season. I guess a hot rainforest climate would take around 6-12 months, and in a climate such as in the city I live, which has a transition climate in between Marine West Coast and Humid Continental, with 8-month growing seasons would take up to three years. I guess in dry, warm climates this could take 10-20 times as long, and in dry, cold climates (north of, or above treeline) it could take 10 to 100 times as long, depending on the level of biological activity in the soil. (in the active layer above the permafrost it might "only" take decades, way up in the eolian zone it might take up to a millennium)

Either way, I've always stuck to the idea that something I leave behind should not take more than a few weeks to decompose. For example, in a wet, Marine West Coast forest, I might toss a banana peel out (1-3 weeks), high up in the mountains I carry it down and dispose of it properly (6 to 120 months) And I expect the people in my party to adhere to similar ethics when it comes up to behaving in the wilderness, otherwise it's the last time I've gone out of the city with them.

Cheers,
Clint.

Proterra wrote:The filter takes approx. 2 years to decompose in a humid marine west coast climate with an 11-month growing season.

Do you have a reference for that? I haven't seen anything.

In the desert, cellulosic materials degrade much more quickly once they are buried more than a few cm down.

What are these mylar balloons you speak of?